[MOVED] A vision of future operating systems

A vision to the future

Windows has had 90% of desktop os. market. Linux less than 2% divided to very many different distros.
At the moment there are now drivers, more than before, which supports old Windows users to look something else
than continuing with Windows. Windows xp support ends up, and Windows 8 was not widely accepted among the
old Windows users. There are still highly divided opinions should they go to Windows 8/8.1 or something else.
The cost of MS products ownership has been high. Windows 7 Premium or Ultimate prices are still 100 -150 €.
Viruses and malware are also big problems in the widely used Windows os.

There are also drivers to opposite direction. Almost all sold laptops or desktops are preinstalled with
Windows 8/8.1 and upgrading 8 to 8.1 is free. Windows 8 os. was sold ca. 30€ price, when the flop of acceptance
was seen. All devices and software are sold as "Windows compatible" and support near to user is available.
Windows 7 is also very popular and and many users will stay there "for ever".

It can also be seen that a new generation of operating systems are coming. The first indication of this is
Chrome browser, Chrome Os and Chromebook laptops. A new operating system is only a highly advanced web
interface by witch you can run applications in web servers to get, store and share data and information with other
users, not having a single piece or minimal amount of own memory or software in your devices. In many
Chromebooks here are only 16 Gb SSD and some 1-2 Gb RAM. This will be a real challenge to Microsoft and all
other laptop or desktop os. suppliers in the future. Traditional way to make an os. by packing 15 -20 Gb of
software to HDD is not so valid any more. Also the prices of computers (mainly laptops) are going down, to half or less
of the traditional ones. (Chromebooks are available even less than 200 €, traditional from 400 to 700 € with Windows 8.1).

The value won't be any more there where it used to be. Business is changing. The competition will be
witch os. supplier can offer best access to web and what are the included services there. All this already exists.
It is only question of time to get customers' acceptance. How to rely on the new generation of operating systems.
Already to day it is for average user highly web dependent what you can do with your "Personal Computer". Google's
Chromebook and os. are still under development and is not a full replacement to Windows xp/Vista/7 or any other
traditional os. yet. This is however the trend to get light weight and inexpensive full replacement for Windows or
Mac laptops to the market.

What will be the role of Linux based traditional operating systems with a selection of free software.
It is difficult to see as a part of the new generation os. However there might still be 2%, or even more Linux PC users
that wants to have a traditional os with own software and own memory hardware. They can buy an inexpensive
Chromebook with, 320 Gb HDD like ACER C 710 , format the hard drive and install some Linux distro there with
Chrome browser. Then there are all what is needed for a full extend os.

All this development is going on every day and good to be aware of it. Good vision of the future can lead to better
solutions whatsoever those might be.

unfortunately, Linux will again "miss the boat".
- another 'golden opportunity' to promote itself, will be wasted. ..

however, 'nix O/Ss like Zorin - are promoting themselves as a alternative to M$ win O/Ss.
- this promotion - needs to get much bigger & much better, - over time.

- more reviews of itself in the technical media etc.

Thank You for your reply

Google is very aggressively marketing its Chrome. I made a Windows 7 installation and after that, I tried to look
some You Tube video. It said that I have to have Adobe Flash Drive installed to look that video and suggested
to download and install it. I accepted. After few minutes I saw that instead of installing only Adobe Flash Drive
it installed also Chrome web browser to that computer, without asking anything if I wanted or not.

When looking after that the computer, it seemed to install an icon to panel, a starter to desktop, a search panel
to IE browser and a start page having suggestion to change the Chrome as default browser. I went to windows/
programs to Chrome folder to delete all files. It said that I can not delete due to some other program uses these files.
I had to work hard to get rid of Chrome.

So what we learn here, Zorin should be available everywhere where Windows os. is running to be easy to
select it as an alternative os. to Windows. It should be behind one "click", like Chrome, to start the installation.
How to make that happend could be an other story.

1. Chrome is spyware - it is only there to provide browsing and purchasing habits to third parties (http://donttrack.us)

2. One click install already happens via Ubuntu Software Center.

3. You really need to take more care when installing 'free' software - here where I live, Adobe takes you to their site and you have to watch VERY carefully about the 'free' add-on of Chrome Browser - you just have to 'uncheck' it.

4. The same process goes for a lot of free add-ons in Windows - MBAM (Malware Bytes Anti-Malware) free version now comes packed with additional add-ons that you might miss if you don't select 'Custom installation', as does SUPER-AntiSpyware (McAfee AV), Comodo Internet Security (PrivDog and GeekBuddy).

The moral therefore for any OS is SCRUTINISE your installer/packages thoroughly before installing/extracting!

It is true that thin client type OS are going to get more common. I even thought about it when buying my last computer (before using thin client). The price tag is appealing, especially to home users but you can't beat having your own OS and software. There is one major draw back when it comes to Chrome and other type of thin client OS, is that once you lose connection to the internet, you don't have a computer.

I have heard of a few companies that have gone down this route and I have used thin clients as well. When I last used thin client (around 2 years ago) wewould have around 5 - 10 mins of downtime a week (sometimes more). One week we had a full day of downtime while the telephone company upgraded the new telephone lines. Although 5 - 10 mins of downtime doesn't sound upsetting it is when you are typing and then you can not save because of loss of network connection. I found them frustrating and hard work. I then opted for a laptop which I could use in the office and at home, improving my overall productivity. Although we are given mobile internet, on trains and planes (in particular), you can't always have an internet connection which would mean loss of productivity.

Upside for a company using thin client is that the software and data are normally off site which means if you are burgled, fire or any other type of disaster, you can easily recover from it.

There are other jsut as effective methods of protecting ones company but the cost of thin client overall is a lot less for a company to finance. I think more and more companies may employ such infrastructers but from a personally users point of view, I think laptops will still be the norm.

For the home user, the desktop could be made redundant altogether. I have been lead to believe that in 1994, Novell CEO Raymond J. Noorda said, that all people need is a television, keyboard and a mouse. The computing could be provided by internet providers meaning that for a small monthly fee, users will have the latest software at their fingertips. Thin client paves the way for this to happen.

So in short, thin clients may be a perfect solution for desktop replacement but for the mobile user, I still think that Mac and Linux should be the way forward. I personally think that MS is too costly a solution at the present. Mac is more expensive at the initial outlay but year on year running costs are minimal.

Does Zorin really need a thin client? or could the Lite version not be used as a thin client solution? I have seen Windows XP desktops running Windows 8 via a thin client.

Clearly, cloud services might be used at a corporate level but as Ubuntu One has discovered, it does not appeal to many users or is not cost effective to operate - I want to be in control of MY data on MY devices - nobody else!

Swarfendor437 wrote:Clearly, cloud services might be used at a corporate level but as Ubuntu One has discovered, it does not appeal to many users or is not cost effective to operate - I want to be in control of MY data on MY devices - nobody else!

I completely agree. I personally feel more secure.

The trouble with Linux is that it is exploding in all directions at the same time, very big business is attached to Unix, small business to MS and medium business a lot of both; the multifarious evocations of Linux, some of which appear not to talk to each other, make Linux an unattractive proposition to companies not employing a full-time IT specialists. The next problem is in lack of consistency in performance and ability from one make of computer to another; computer A will happily run program X, computers B,C & D won't look at program X, it messes with the OS; another reason why companies are reluctant to sign up to Linux. It is great for those who like to tinker; I tried 3 different iterations of Linux before I settled on Zorin, but even I find installing software that is not already in the Software Centre a real pain in the a***, and I am a person prepared to try all sorts of avenues in an attempt to get a computer to do what I want - I once convinced a 2.5D router to machine from a full 3D DXF file without understanding one word of the NC code I was supposed to use.

If Linux wants to be more widely adopted it needs to come together and have a unified way of doing things, one that the layman understands - Fred Blogs down the High Street has no interest diving into Terminal/Console/Konsole, still less in the subtle difference between su and sudo, between bash, crash and dash; he just wants to be able to say "I like the look of that", download it and have it self-install; and quite frankly, most of the time, so would I.

It's the little things which exasperate, things like telling the power settings to not suspend when under mains power, only for it to suspend several times as you try to watch a DVD; setting the screen brightness only for it to revert to full every time you restart the computer - And will someone please tell me how to tell Ubuntu Update to stop trying to force me to install Google Chrome (Eliminating it was the second thing I did after installing Zorin).

I downloaded Kingsoft office on this laptop, installed and ran it within minutes on my Toshiba, after reinstalling Zorin 4 times on an Advent I finally gave up - Imagine that scenario in a business environment; once would be enough before the IT man said "Nope, we can't use this software..."

I completely agree with all those comments.

I personally think, if Linux had a "standard" that all distros had to follow, so that there could be some common ground, then it would be a fantastic way forward. If you think about PC's there is only 3 main groups of OS. MS being the main one, Unix based and thin client. The Unix based could be broken down further to give: Mac, Linux and Unix. For this post I am not going into any detail with regards to thin client.

Mac is successful because it has most of the points you already made but it is unsuccessful due to initial outlay on hardware.

That is where Linux could pick up, only if it had the main points you have already made. There is room for different distros (like picking a car or a house - we all want and like different things). For instance how many of us would rush out and get a car which when you tried to refuel, the engine wouldn't start unless you used a particular brand and/ or knew how to open the hood and start tinkering with the engine? I feel the same with Linux.

Standards were implemented with HTML and I think, we could do the same with Linux. It has the power and flexability to take over as the main OS for PC's.

Bloggsworth, good point - well made

I would agree with most of what Bloggsworth has said apart from the last comment - hardware is Wintel orientated - a closed shop - how can GNU/Linux compete with that? It is up to users to lobby hardware manufacturers to make the hardware Free Software Compliant!

Swarfendor437 wrote:I would agree with most of what Bloggsworth has said apart from the last comment - hardware is Wintel orientated - a closed shop - how can GNU/Linux compete with that? It is up to users to lobby hardware manufacturers to make the hardware Free Software Compliant!

Did I say I blamed Linux for that? I stated it as a fact of my experience, I did not apportion blame.

Hi Bloggsworth, I know you didn't - just wanted to make a point about the 'cartel' that 'doesn't exist'

If you want hardware that is compliant:

http://www.lemote.com/en/

Swarfendor437 wrote:hardware is Wintel orientated - a closed shop - how can GNU/Linux compete with that? It is up to users to lobby hardware manufacturers to make the hardware Free Software Compliant!

Do you think users or should distros?

I sometimes think as commercial based Linux distros are generating money, then why do they not do it (they should have the finance to put into R&D)? Or could it be that they do and hence why more hardware manufactures are making their hardware Linux compliant.

From OS share data*, Linux users seems to be around 1% (even after the death of XP), Mac users around 9% which leaves MS users with around 90% share (rounding numbers). If I was a manufacturer of hardware, I would want to sell as many as I could, as quick as I could so I would appeal to the mass market. It this case it would be MS based users (well Windows 7 users to be accurate as Windows 7 has the biggest share) from the data NetMarketShare. Below is actual graph:


Around 300 million PCs** are sold each year (globally) which means if Linux is has 1% share then the number of PCs which are sold with Linux installed would be around 3 million. Well to be honest, I personally think that this figure would be closer to less then 1 million and I would expect most Linux users to install Linux after they have bought their PC. Which means if I was a hardware manufacturer I would only have around 1 million new customers worldwide. Not a right lot in the grand scheme of things. So what could be done?
http://linuxpreloaded.com/

I would like to see a Zorin based netbook for sale in supermarkets, Amazon and ebay. I would chose a netbook because they are cheap, reliable and light to carry but I wouldn't sell it as a netbook but as a mini notebook. For that though, you would need all the hardware to be compliant and a full office suite. There is an Ubuntu Asus netbook (1015E-DS03) but personally I think it is little over priced compared to other netbooks. I also think the Zorin model would be a good seller to Windows users because of its look and feel. There was talk of a Zorin PC but it doesn't seem to have materialised.

* PCs I am defining as desktop, laptop and netbooks. I am excluding servers, tablets, smartphones, pda and etc.
**300 million PCs was an estimate gathered from various internet sources and it is by no means an accurate figure. If you have 'prove' of a more accurate figure then please post.

I think you are arguing from a false premise. You can write to the CPU in a language the CPU understands, and that language need have no relationship to Windows, Linux or any other OS, OSs are interpreters nowadays, middlemen if you like. I used to use RoboCad, a CAD drafting programme, the program itself plus 10 years of CAD files took up a whole 7.5Mb, the program was written directly to the chip. There is no reason why a Linux based OS should have any difficulty addressing any hardware which Windows can address, it is just a matter of getting round to it, but resources are limited. If Empire Computers produce a laptop, then they will have had access to all the neccessary code required to obey the dictats of Intel, AMD and Microsoft, code that your friendly Linux developer would give his eye teeth for. Even so, there are still occasions when Program A won't work properly in computer X, even when running the same version of Windows!

Zorin were going to launch a dual boot note/netbook but I don't think they were able to get the financial backing needed to get it off the ground. At the end of the day, it's who has the biggest clout and in the GNU/Linux world Mr Shuttleworth is the next Steve Jobs - but he does not refer to GNU/Linux - his Ubuntu is all that exists to him with no acknowledgement to GNU/Linux at all now in their latest releases - they released Ubuntu for phones and are looking to launch an Ubuntu tablet - basically MS is attempting to emulate the stance of Mac with 'one OS to rule them all' - wonder when the squillionaire will be launching 'Ubuntunes'!

Bloggsworth wrote:I think you are arguing from a false premise. You can write to the CPU in a language the CPU understands, and that language need have no relationship to Windows, Linux or any other OS

That I believe that is what an embedded OS does. The problem there, is should a user change hardware then the OS needs to be rewritten. That is OK when you are the vendor but what if you are just the user with no programming experience? - Please remember that most computers are modular designs and could employ many vendors. Should you wish to look at embedding then Asus is a fantastic vendor as they have support specialist that would help you achieve your dreams. Even for a one off, they will brand their products as yours (for a price). Rasberry Pi is another example and a cheaper alternative but no rebranding.

In Short:
We need the drivers from the vendor to make our hardware work and that is the job of the OS - interpret input and direct output to the correct hardware with instructions the hardware understands. You are right in believing that any OS is just a middle man and you are right in believing that the middle man could be made redundant. The task involved is not an easy one, though.

In conclussion
I have programmed in low level languages (using ASM, machine code and binary) when I used to write control software for the 8502 processor. I even wrote a printer driver using ASM but to be honest it was brain taxing and not an easy task (well paid though). Would I do it now? never. That is why I use desktop OS like Zorin and Win XP and don't program or embed. Last time I did embed an OS was in 2003 for a project backed by Boris Johnson - Mayor of London and I have pledged never again and I mean never, ever again.

Hi
Last news from HP tells that it says "good bay" to Windows and begins to develope a new Linux based operating system. Also Chromebooks has been a good business for HP, more popular than they expected. Now we can see the first steps to future operating systems and that there will be computers pre-installed with Linux in the shops. Interesting to see whether there will be commercial software suppliers to this HPLinux os. ("The Machine" as the hw/sw combination is called), either HP or mainly some others. Will it still be "open source - free software" or not? What will be the role of all the hundreds of existing Linux os. distros on the long run? Now the competition of future operating systems has clearly started.

I think Ubuntu will still be the market leader as it has tablets in the pipeline. If new hardware becomes 'cloud' computing I will join the Luddites and you won't see me on here anymore!

I believe that the "HPLinux Mashine" will be more "Chromebook" type computer than a conventional PC. But there will be more advanced hardware, including also bigger internal memory to store data also locally and to run also offline applications. There will be a Linux kernel and may be a new advanced "browser based" HP developed interface to net and UI.
Software locate and is running however mainly in the net servers. This is only possibility to compete with Google and Microsoft. There is a need to offer good and familiar software services to the users and that is possible to arrange only using net as "the computer". I looked the Chrome Web Store offering and there is already available among the others softwares like all commonly used MS Office applications. It is possible to run in all operating systems just having the Chrome browser to run that software.


What will be the HP's business concept there is still open I suppose. Google collects and sells user information to finance the software services. Microsoft sells operating systems and applications. Would HP do something similar or will there be an user fee to use the HP software services is still open. It is also possible that HP offers only the hardware with HPLinux os. installed and application software services comes only from other vendors.

One possible solution is that there will be many Software Centers where you can either use as online or install software for offline use to your computer. The system integration can lead to solutions where all needed is in your internet service package. I looked here in Finland the "Elisa Viihde" package that includes all entertainment services in internet, including TV programs, free and pay channels and program storage, radio, smart phone interface, and computer wireless interfaces in one router with 20 Mb/s band wide. I believe that in the near future there will be 100 Mb/s speed and also the os. or browser independent computer Software Center services are included. This may sound little futuristic but all needed technology is already there. The users have to change however their mind settings.

Changing users mind settings is the harder part. Technology can be far more advanced then it already is but the mind sets is what is limiting the advancement of technology into main stream. For instance your mobile phone could be used to get your money from your cash machine but the mind set of the users is the limiting factor.

Like Swarf has already said, if cloud services is the future then he will be gone for ever and I would second that. I love having control over my own software. Even if that control is just placebo and I really don't have control. The fact it sits on my computer, then I feel I have more control over it.

Big brother is watching and Orwell's1987 is here but I will and do reject it. I was born free and I will die free. People hate not knowing and that is what makes us the top of the animal world but it is also what is killing the freedom that we strive for.

Google selling our information (if it is true) then what else is known about us?

“HPLinux Machine” could be an attractive new laptop/netbook concept to realize something new that has the best features to combine the conventional PC and the Chromebook. It could then better fit to different user groups' needs. There could also become a new Linux based computing "word" with increasing market share that could better compete with Windows and MACs on the market to have also the commercial services available.

HP hardware has been one of the best compatible to the Linux. There might not be big problems with hardware. The key issue is, how to arrange the services and application offering to users. There it may succeed or fail. There should be branded "HPLinux compatible" software that is tested that it runs in "HPLInux Machines" to maintane a high quality image. I would definitely buy one if it fulfills my expectations and the price level is more or less the same with Cromebooks. I have now HP530 and I have to replace it sooner or later, but I do not want to buy now a Windows 8 pre-installed one, only to format the hard drive and install a Linux os. there.

The status of Linux will be better if it is pre-installed to the sold machines. Now the status is low due to it is in many cases seen only as a new os. to replace the old Windows in the already outdated hardwares. In best case the "HPLinux" could change totally the focus and the market of operating systems. This is just what Linus wanted to see happend according to this linked video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o

Then there is the counter argument of FSF:

http://www.lemote.com/en/products/Noteb ... 0/112.html

Interesting. There seems to be Chinese "Chromebooks" and also the Flagship of Chinese Operating System, the "Chinese Chrome OS" (Neokylin Linux Secure Cloud OS) based on Linux.

Well you know my views on Chrome (or rather Google! ) "The problem with chrome is that it rusts easily!"

Hi, do not install Chrome to your car, it is a web browser. Use preferably there plastic . I do not like either Google's business concept even if it might be legal. Unfortunately Google have all those good web applications. I believe that I can not change the world not using Chrome. All information of you are collected instead of that. There are all kind of other ways to do that.

Henriolavi wrote:Hi, do not install Chrome to your car, it is a web browser. Use preferably there plastic . I do not like either Google's business concept even if it might be legal. Unfortunately Google have all those good web applications. I believe that I can not change the world not using Chrome. All information of you are collected instead of that. There are all kind of other ways to do that.

here, here ... I second that too. I think Apple are similar too. We have iPads instead of PCs at work now and I think Apple and google know more about us then our own friends and partners.

Latest news tell that Nokia is starting to develop new smart phones using Android operating system.
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Nokia-mi ... st_id58863

Microsoft shuts down the development center of Windows Phones Development.


"Nokia will develop rebranded smart phones using Android operating system

When Microsoft purchased Nokia Mobile Phones, it got its Devices&Services division, with the Windows Phone Lumia brand, but also the Asha and other low-cost solutions in Nokia's Mobile Phones. It also acquired the right to use Nokia's brand, and licensed it's mobile-related patents for 10 years, with an option for perpetuity extension, also making itself a licensee of the HERE maps suite for four years.

Nokia, however, retained the right to use its name on future products, the HERE maps suite ownership, and its strong patent portfolio. This seems to be enough to try and resurrect their former glory, Nokia intends to do just that. The company is looking to hire engineers, designers and camera specialists for new devices that are coming down the pipeline.

A few of the listings have been closed, which might mean that Nokia got their guys, but one in particular piqued our interest - a mobile photography engineer with experience of camera drivers for Android. Thus, extrapolating from the fact that the hiring spree is done by the same team that issued the Nokia Z launcher in the Play Store, we might be seeing an Android-powered future for the Nokia".

Microsoft closed just their mobile phone development department in Oulu and there hundreds of design engineers lost their jobs and are free to start the Android based Nokia smart phones' development. Nokia has now also lot of “loose” capital to be used for new product development.

Microsoft is going also to have a more defensive strategy to keep all Windows users by offering free uprgades and free MS office tools, preinstalled also to low cost (350 €) laptops. I suppose that this marketing strategy has been selected due to laptops are more and more used and mandatory to have in the schools to keep Windows as preferred os. there.

Henriolavi, I have moved this topic as Brainstorm should be used specifically to ZorinOS - this thread is really 'generic' and 'off-topic' - Please look at th guide here if you are unsure where to post - posting in the wrong section can lead to a temporary ban - persistence a permanent one!

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5438

On your last topic:

http://www.networkworld.com/article/220 ... under.html

What is the best operating system in future for smart phones, smart TVs and tablets then? Windows, iphone/pad, Android, Ubuntu or something else? None of those fulfills Stallmans criteria of free software or non tracking operation if most commonly used applications are installed there. Stallman says he has not any such devices but he has however the need to communicate to people all over the World? I was curious to see what can be done with a tablet having Android os. I invested to a Denver TAD 70111 device 65 Euros to get a small tablet that I can connect to my computers having Zorin OS and use as portable computer with me everywhere. I was amazed how good it worked out of the box. Connections to wifi and other computers with Zorin os. was easy and all applications worked without any problems. It is a good combination of online and offline use and can use such browsers and search engines that wont track you. I could suggest to Stallman to have a smart phone or tablet like this.

Stallman uses a Yeeloong notebook - it is very slow but he prefers freedom to speed and lack of privacy - if your are 'smart' you don't use a smart phone - or any mobile. I am resisting smart phones. I do have a mobile so I am probably tracked everywhere I go - Stallman in one of his videos told of a Belgian who moved to Ireland and used an ancient Irish law to pursue release of data that the mobile provider had on him - 3,000 different locattions recorded in just one day! Basically the 'smart' thing to do is to become a Luddite!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

Yes, smart but not practical. Android seems to be however much more "free" than Cromebook which is only an extended Chrome browser. Your application selections defines very much how safe you are from spying. From Android web store you can select freely different browsers to be used, also Opera seems to be there. Office tools are King Soft applications (WPS Office) and are compatible with MS Office formats and PDF.


And you can use also different search applications instead of Google like in this Firefox page.


The mail box can be what ever and you need not have a Google account if not using any apps there from Google. ie. The Maps can be an offline application replacing Google maps. like this.



So, much better alternative than a Cromebook !

With the devs persistent efforts....the Android Desktop will be reality soon.
Of course their will be a need for full blown useful apps to accommodate the OS.
This dev started with nothing....and look where that AD stands today with compatibility.
Installed it first time with know problems what so ever on one of my Notebooks.
Would love to see a real third OS for the Desktop besides Apple and Windows.
LD knows it won't never be Linux as Linux.
Unless someone takes the code and does something real with it instead of what these yahoo's have been doing. [ Ubuntu ]
I don't see that happening anytime soon. [ Nope ]
The bar graph tells all !!!!

Henriolavi wrote:Yes, smart but not practical. Android seems to be however much more "free" than Cromebook which is only an extended Chrome browser. Your application selections defines very much how safe you are from spying. From Android web store you can select freely different browsers to be used, also Opera seems to be there. Office tools are King Soft applications (WPS Office) and are compatible with MS Office formats and PDF.

And you can use also different search applications instead of Google like in this Firefox page.

The mail box can be what ever and you need not have a Google account if not using any apps there from Google. ie. The Maps can be an offline application replacing Google maps. like this.

So, much better alternative than a Cromebook !

What you have to remember is Opera (and yes I use it as my preferred browser but only up to release 12.16) and Kingsoft Office are 'closed source' - the latter will not work with GNU/Linux screenreader - Libre Office is still the best Open Source Office suite out there. Even Android does not necessarily meet Free Software Foundations and it is known to have security issues.

In respect of smart phones there is a platform I read about that has something called 'smack' which prevents any malware getting on board - if I manage to find it in the plethora of mags I will post back!

I looked whether there is Libre Office for Android but did not found. It may not be available there yet. I believe that all software for Android have to be somehow modified to run in Android phones and tablets. However there are few other office tools like MS Office too. The need in a 7 inch tablet is mainly only to store and look the documents (PDF), not to make them there. It is too little to do that. Here a look to some screenshot pages of such a (PDF) document.





What comes to security there are in the Android web store at least F-Secure, Avast and Norton applications available.



As earlier mentioned none of these os.es or needed applications does not completely fulfill Stallmans criteria for open source, free software, but there are not now any such a working one available. (If not going to use Yeeloong ? ).

Well it is not open source but on non-GNU/Linux computers I use Comodo Internet Security Priemium - Avast free would be my second choice. Oh, forgot to mention earlier, there is a new kid on the block in respect of an open source version of Opera - Otter - but not fully working as yet - look forward to when it is!

I installed Opera and Avast Free virus scanner there and all works fine but the problem will be this:



There is not any more "core" memory space much left to install more Applications. The 1 Gb (sisäinen tallennustila) has been up to 86 % occupied with those 36 apps (additional to Android 4.2.2 os) I have now there installed. All apps uses at least partly that space even if there is free memory still on the other "partitions" like on the internal or external SD cards. There is totally 512 RAM, 4 Gb internal SD of which 1 Gb is used for "Core" memory and then I have a 8Gb external mini SD there to store data. That can be extended to (supported) 32 Gb but the "Core" memory is the "Show stopper" now to add more applications. I have to remove some overlapping apps to get some more free memory to the "Core" memory. I may not need four browsers and videoplayers there .

HD videos are also big files . To save memory space, there is optimal to use only 800 x 480 pix resolution that is the used resolution in this tablet.

If this type tablet is used to run offline videos, music or used to read books or show documents offline then there have be used the ext. 32 Gb mimiSDs and USBs with mini connector to store the data.

Preinstalled "MX Player" video player works best of all and all controls are working best there ( Re picture), also the scroll bar to go forward and back on the timeline. VLC is available, works ?, but is still a Beta version and under development.



.

To be honest I am not a fan of Tablet devices - I much prefer something with a keyboard!

Ok. next generation will wonder why there were such a clumsy things to communicate with the computer, why not just talk.

Henriolavi wrote:Ok. next generation will wonder why there were such a clumsy things to communicate with the computer, why not just talk.

There would be Industrial Tribunals for workers making claims for RTI - Repetitive Thoracic Injury!

What makes you think Google is spying on us for around personal info.
What do you have hidden...that would cause t hem to spy on you.
If you are law abiding citizen. [ NoWorry's]
If your a online shopaholic...then they would use your buying/browsing statistics { No Personal INFO Needed } for them to make a profit. [ That's All Friend ]
If they collected everyone's info and stored it on their servers...they would need a building the size of the state of Texas. [ Get Real ]
It gets very old hearing this garbage about Google/Microsoft spying on everyone.
If everyone learns about real { Cyber Security }....instead of believing all the hogwash posted on the net.
And keep the garbage off the computer. [ Bogus Software ]
They could strut right around these kind of situations...without any problem at all. [ TOR ]
NSA is a different story/subject.
If it weren't for the NSA......
I could add pages for the good side of NSA.
1.Example > You wouldn't be able to safely walk out your front everyday without looking over your shoulder twice.
UK USA France Germany Spain........& more.....
Let these agency's vanish and lookout.
It is to terrible to think as what might happen !!!!~!!!!

Please, look these videos and define how much there is still need for keyboard. There is also a speech search for browser(s). My tablet is a parallel model Denver TAD 70111 to these shown, so almost the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQSBqUsCkDU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSRWiZnIQUw

Now it is on an intermediate stage to move to a new generation of personal computers.

In respect of Google:

http://donttrack.us

Now the details on the page have changed - I'll give an example based on what used to be on that link - I am a female medical student researching market information on Herpes - this information is recorded by Google and sold to third parties - insurance companies - result - I am uninsurable for life insurance!

My objection to MS is their recording of Skype - the UK Govt has suggested that Skype is used by GPs to reduce waiting times and visits to the Doctor's surgery - no thanks, I don't want M$ recording hypocratic information with my GP!

Now another issue is mobile phone companies - Richard Stallman in one of his videos told the tale of a Belgian man who moved to Ireland and used an ancient Irish law to force his mobile phone provider on data kept on him - they had months worth of information and on each day they had recorded the users Geolocation - 3,000 times per day!

Henriolavi wrote:Please, look this video and define how much there is still need for keyboard. There is also a speech search for browser(s). My tablet is a parallel model Denver TAD 70111 to that shown, so almost the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQSBqUsCkDU

Now it is on an intermediate stage to move to a new generation of personal computers.

OK, well do you remember this:

http://www.theendearingdesigner.com/wp- ... ds-056.jpg

It never took off because it would diministh Secretary/PA's skills!

If it was viable for my setup I'd love one of these!:

http://www.theendearingdesigner.com/wp- ... ds-044.jpg

For a full and long list:

http://www.theendearingdesigner.com/cre ... -keyboards

QWERTY layout was designed by typewriter manufacturers to reduce 'typo' errors - and it moved over to the computer keyboard to enable easy transition of skills - I have Grade 3 CSE Typewritiing from when I was at school! (My teacher advised me that had I not gone back on one question I would have got Grade 2!)

People harping about MS/Google spying.
Is about as silly....as someone..... living around the equator and saying it's to hot/humid !!!!
One has to learn to drive before getting on a freeway/interstate highway. [ To avoid hurting themselves/others ]
Same goes for the computer and the cyber highway.
It's no ones fault but that person. [ Laziness for most people to educate themselves beforehand ]

I feel for the people in the UK. [ Truth ]
Datek mentioned one time that they had GPS/Spyware of some sort tracking the passers near [ trash cans ] in the UK. [ London ]
He gave that to me one time as a reference.
Whether they did or still do....I wasn't to observant last time we were in the UK. [ Rather young in those days ]
That's a definition of [ spying ]



I heard through the grapevine this is on the agenda [ Surface Pro Tablets Win9 ]
The keyboard shot out in from of the tablet to the desktop. [ Wecam/Projection Point Local ]
Will have this setup built in the tablet.
Swarf they are a pain to use for most people.
Impaired vision
Arthritis > Hands
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome
You would think it would be easier...less pessure on the hands and arms
In reality in will tighten your upper half even faster.
That's the down side.

Unfortunately many web pages are not designed to be used with a small tablet. Texts are small and some selections by fingers are impossible to make even if there is zoom possibilities. Sometimes zooming is not possible to make at all. This requires new designs to webpages. I find this now from web which is exellent to navigate with tablet.


If keyboard is needed there are already now many alternatives to use more conventional small sized (hardware) keyboards with tablets.


Even pocket sized keyboards are available.

Well here is a nice compact one for you:

http://www.theendearingdesigner.com/wp- ... ds-062.jpg

If I am really honest this is my favourite one:

http://www.theendearingdesigner.com/wp- ... ds-020.jpg

Seriously taken, I was in a computer shop and looked what they sell and what people want to buy and noticed that it is not conventional Windows machines. Instead they sell iPhones, iPads, Chromebooks, Android smart phones and tablets like Samsung Galagsy, Google Nexus etc. Also some Windows 8 preinstalled machines are also still shown. This means that there will be large diversity of new operating systems and type of hardwares among the new users of "computers". This trend means that a dual booter of some Linux distro with Windows will be a rarity sooner or later. The customization of used systems will be more and more only downloading applications from the os. related web (play) stores. Installing of a new Linux os. to the used hardwares by users themself is coming to be either more difficult or even impossible. This will be challenging for future development and use of open source free software.

Well as long as there is eBay there will always be room for Linux OS - just search YouTube for LinuxHelpGuy who did a review of Zorin 9 that he installed on a second hand Toshiba which he bought for £30

Ok. What I am doing is, I upgrade my "customized" version of Desktop for Linux distro and for Windows 7 with it's local supplier, so that it will due long enough for the future. Then I replace my laptop that can not be upgraded any more due to it's display is wearing out with something else than Windows, Mac or Chromebook. What I was definitely looking as an alternative is this Asus Transformer Pad with Android os. on the you tube video. Android 4.4 version price is 290 € and the M$ Windows 8.1 version 500 €.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L51psXOOxIo

Edit: Chrome BETA (for Android) seems to be the best browser now for tablets. Tried also Firefox and Opera/Opera Mini. Works, except Opera Mini, but not so good. Chrome BETA is responsive, fast and have best functionality with a tablet. It can be used with the smallest selection buttons on the pages accurately. Loads fastest the page so that it can be scrolled. Also it opens the keyboard, only by hitting few first letters you move to a new page selection menu. I suppose it is the only browser until now available that is designed for the (small) tablet use. If there are PDF files best working tool is Adobe Reader. Kingsoft is lagging on the screen and does not have all content support as PDF reader either. Avast Mobile is a good security app for virus scanning.

Yesterday I unboxed a new TV set (?) which I got from insurance due to the thunder storm few weeks ago destroyed entirely my TV. The new one is a Panasonic Smart Viera 42". It is really an entertainment computer with full featured WiFi net connection to internet, Apps Market, Home Cloud, Web Browser and so on. It is more a computer with TV application installed than a TV set any more! I just wonder what is the os, here, there is nothing mentioned of that (What is Viera based on?) ie. the Browser there is only named as "Web Browser" nothing more. It looks very similar to tablets and the UI is a mouse bad type remote control device for moving the arrow cursor for making selections. There is an other remote control device (more conventional) to be used when watching TV. Smart Viera have integrated wireless and with the VIERA Remote App 2.0 can be controlled from your smartphone or tablet. Advanced models even allow voice interaction through which you can instruct the TV.



full rewiew and feature content explained here
http://www.trustedreviews.com/panasonic ... ew-summary

How to install Linux distros here?

No you can't - http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=155605

Ok. The first thing that I can do with it is, I can browse the Forum.

Well here is the answre to your browser question:

http://tech.firstpost.com/news-analysis ... 07433.html

I downgraded for better picture quality > size .
If anyone tells you that bigger is better.
They're full of hot air.
I just gave away to my favorite Uncle...Datek's brother my 70 inch Vizio Razor Smart 3-D [ Little over a year old ]
For the newest 55 inch. LG Ultra HD 4k smart 3-D below..... [ LG 55" Ultra HD 4K LED TV 55UB8500 ]
It does everything but wash dishes ......
If the buyer did their research before paying big $$$$$ to have a [ real ] Smart TV .
They won't need XBMC what so ever.
Before going out and paying over 2,000 USD on a new TV......
I took my time..... and did my research before letting go of all that $$$$
In simple words...anything over 60 in. is a waist of space.....& $$$$$$$ for most folks.
LG's WEBOS looks and acts like WIN8.....in which I know they're all pretty much the same kernel [ bottom end ] with their customized GUI on top. [ Linux/Unix ]
Just like Android & IOS.......... [ Examples ]

I was looking at picture quality rather than connectivity - the 3-d sets in 2-d look even better with 'sharpness' to give a 3-d look in 2-d - a nice 42-48 inch can be had for £500 (if you have it spare) 100 Hz would be ample for me 4k is just too much and too expensive!

They have those over here for the folks that just want a [ Big Screen TV ] "SEIKI TV"
I have a 32 inch also that has very good picture quality [ Average Price " $ 198.00 " ]
I did my math.......before handing over the the green.
Now I don't have to run my 850 watt Cooler Master for everything. [ Games/Movies ]
27 inch Samsung Monitor to add !!!!
I can use the LG alone for most everything....
By doing that....I can......
Take $$$$ amount relative to electricity I would pay towards the computer end usage. [ Monthly ]
In less than two years I will end up with the same price your referring.

Now a trip back in time:



Now here's an interesting find - I was able to upload a .png in Firefox but not .jpg! (this is my newest install as my LXLE install went west so I put Netrunner 14 on and modified the theme to steam punk!

I think 4K resolution for TV sets are over specified. There is still shortage even of Full HD resolution programs in "free" TV canals. Mainly they send a picture with a quality corresponding of 480p or even less (360p) resolution. It is question of money, bandwide costs are too high to send Full HD resolution (1080p) for "free". They even use digital filtering to the recorded files to reduce the need for send data and so need of used band wide. There is not even possibilities to make or have Full HD quality programs to send. It is also waste of money to buy an over sized TV. It is now TV manufacturers dream to sell high tech, expensive devices even if customers can not use them. There have to be at least 3 to 4 times the TV size distance to look it without the distortions due to picture angle differing from the one used when recorded the program. It looks like sitting on the first front seat at the movie theatre, with an experience of unsatifactory picture quality. The send picture quality is ok. when I look it from my 7" tablet with a 480p resolution
If someone has money to buy an expensive TV set, then there is possibility to get benefit of that, going to bay of HD programs from HD canals. and build a bigger house (living room) to get space for watching it.

In the US.....we don't have those problems for the most part.
I stated previously that anything over 60 in. is to large for the majority.
When I said that..I was including everyone around the globe.
I see you have a lack of understanding about the 4k.
That's no biggy...for there are millions more that have no clue what 4k even is at the moment.
I can sit 2 feet away or 20 feet away and LG 4k is just as clear.
There is no real distortion what so ever.
Except for real oldies. [ Laurel & Hardy ]
Those sort of shows were distorted 80 years ago.
I can take WW-ll classics and play the them clear as a photograph on the TV. [ John Wayne ]
My cable provider came out with the X1 box that is nothing more than an over rated [ Android Media Streaming Box ]
And your jaws would drop...if I told how much extra they are trying to get from the customers.

I see that I was not clear and accurate enough in my wording, so here some refinements to my message. The camera focal length is "normally" such that the watching distance should be 3 - 4 times the screen size to have the right view angle to watch the pictures without perspective errors. So to say, non-distorted picture view. That is not related to the picture quality, resolution or such things at all.
I have a clear understanding what 4k means, technically. I have a video camera that records 4k, but I have not any further vision to that, how long it will take to get such infrastructure that it can be a mature solution to the majority of TV watchers. I only see that it is not available now in many places where they (will) sell these devices. That is why I considered that it is now over specified.

Henriolavi > The technology has been around since the 1950's.

The key patent holder...has held onto this type of technology as others for decades.
There was one figure whom were permitted to obtain the technology and use it for their purpose.
[ Today ] the other folks are permitted to play with clear crystal color for profit.

Hint > [ Robby ]

Yes, when I did my Business Administration Course at Polytechnic, a lecturer informed us (this was circa 1980) that hi-fi was in fact invented in the 1930's - something he only then recently discovered - and that EMI held the patent, did not develop it as it felt the market was not yet ready for high-fidelity audio! Nikolai Tesla wanted people to have free energy but this technology could be also used for nefarious means.

http://www.teslasgenerator.net/tesla-free-power/

To be exact Walt Disney World Production.
Held on to the technology for decades. [ Audio & Video ]
You won't ever see the whole story nor truth behind [ WD ] reasons.
The proof of whom had the real such technology can be dated back to the early as the 1930's to the late 1950's
Real HD Audio/Video.
Wizard of OZ
Forbidden Planet [ SCi-Fi ]
My Hint was......
[ Robby ]

Some years later NASA acquired the new age technology for themselves via space missions.
In the the late 1960's RCA was to take part in the development. [ NASA ]

There are many practical limitations to use 4k at the moment. TV studios have not that infra to make 4k programs, transmitting and receiving requires 4 times more band wide than Full HD, up to 100 Mb/s line if there are any shared use of the line. DVD disc can handle 480p up to a 2 hours full length movie, Blue Ray disc can handle 1080p movie respectively, but there is not any optical media to handle 4k resolution to store or play. Storage devices can be either an USB 3.0 or a SD card with high speed memory. One full length movie occupies whole 64 Gb high speed memory that costs 1€/Gb, so it will be expensive. To one 1Tb external drive can be stored only ca. 20 movies. Some 5 to 10 Tb cloud storage could be the solution depending the costs there. For computers there are not either video players or editors that can run 4k videos. The only possibility is to look "still" pictures in 4k mode, not movies.

Gobbling up the the garbage off the web doesn't help increase knowledge.
It does nothing but cause confusion.
These commentators/bloggers are paid in one way or another to do this.
And they are very good at twisting the idea behind everything. [ 4k @ home ]
To confuse the public of the matter.
That's how Apple has stayed afloat all these years.
From what I have read of their garbage....the commentators/bloggers are talking about the cinema side. [ mostly ]
They're not going to go out and spend millions of $$$$ to convert over.
Why should they...when they are are making billions off of what they have now.
That is.... with the garbage quality movies they've been producing lately.
No real overhead hanging over. [ Huh ]
If that weren't the case [ IMAX ] would be an everyday thing in the theater.
Any everyday media tech junkie with a 1/3 sense about such technology knows that this type structure won't happen for several more years. [ Movie Cinema ]
My guess would be 10 years to be exact....before this is everyday common. [ Home Use ]
By then 500 tb hard drives will be the normal....for computing.
To be technical with real world statistics about 4k !!!!
It would take a little over 20 mbs bandwidth to do such things as 4k. [ Today ]
To be exact [ most up to date blueray optical drives ] can/will be able to playback 4k technology with the [ appropiate software ] and [ gpu ] !!!!

The only logical reason to own 4k technology via big screen.
One of the reasons for the 4k [ TV ] ........ for one....is here in the US....they aren't anymore expensive to own than any of the other premium quality [ big screen ]
The other reason/s I'll leave _______________ for without knowing the real theory of owning 4k this day and age.......
Wouldn't do me much good trying to explain !!!!
To keep it simple....under normal instances of 4k.
I can stand 2 ft away from the screen and there is no blur distortion.
It can't be done with a normal big screen hd tv.
I would be just as others with the lack of understanding about 4k at home now. [ benefits of ownership ]
But I'm not....I educated myself of the matter in detail before making the big move.
And never regret the decision I made.

Note : The subject is being brought up to the front burner in the near future. [ Now ]
XBMC [ Kody ]
DIVX

4KBluRay

This is an experimental reply. I installed Android 4.4 for x85 architecture to my laptop to see how near it is to a desktop or a laptop&netbook use availlable now. This reply has been made using that os. in my HP 530 laptop. It looks like a phone or tablet UI, but can be used with normal keyboard and mouse too. It is very fast compared to all other os.es I have used. The download size is only 370Mb, so it can be installed from a CD also. Almost all releases has been earlier for some specific computer type. 4.4 is a generic distro that can be installed to any x85 architecture type computer. All applications does not however work from Play Store and there is not a working driver for sound to my laptop type now. So that is a Show Stopper to use it for full extend at the moment. However it is an interesting os. alternative to low performing computers if it is used mainly to entertainment, gaiming and web browsing. For productivity applications this os. is not yet so ready to be used. The development trend is clearly going to have a fully working laptop&notebook Android ditro available in the near future.

Henriolavi wrote:This is an experimental reply. I installed Android 4.4 for x85 architecture to my laptop to see how near it is to a desktop or a laptop&netbook use availlable now. This reply has been made using that os. in my HP 530 laptop. It looks like a phone or tablet UI, but can be used with normal keyboard and mouse too. It is very fast compared to all other os.es I have used. The download size is only 370Mb, so it can be installed from a CD also. Almost all releases has been earlier for some specific computer type. 4.4 is a generic distro that can be installed to any x85 architecture type computer. All applications does not however work from Play Store and there is not a working driver for sound to my laptop type now. So that is a Show Stopper to use it for full extend at the moment. However it is an interesting os. alternative to low performing computers if it is used mainly to entertainment, gaiming and web browsing. For productivity applications this os. is not yet so ready to be used. The development trend is clearly going to have a fully working laptop&notebook Android ditro available in the near future.

http://www.slax.org/en/download.php

I am still working with Android 4.4 x86 to get sound there. Sound is working fine with an ASUS but not with my HP laptop. There are some Alsa sound settings that wont work. What I found out with using an os. designed first for phones and tablets was, that scrollbars are not needed at all in the windows to scroll the pages up and down or left or right. All can be done just with mouse and arrow cursor without pointin to a narrow , invisible area on the window. Those scrollbars are only some additional things there from the the times when Apple first and then Microsoft launched the revolutionary graphical user interfaces to personal computers 35 years ago !! Anyone has not just told to designers that untill now. Also the scroll function works much faster wihout having scrollbars. One thing has to be however solved differently, how to select the text or a picture from windows.