dual or multi-boot of Linux with Windows 7

In a separate thread I started ages ago about disappearing max/min/close buttons, the discussion went a little off-topic into the subject of dual-booting. To keep the forum in good order I am posting some questions on that topic into this new post.

I have seen swarfendorf's excellent sticky guide to dual booting Zorin with Windows 7, and also the youtube video by Matthew Moore. Both recommend the use of EasyBCD as a way of dual-booting a Linux OS with Windows 7 while leaving the Windows bootloader in the MBR unscathed.

So far so good. But I have some questions relating to the particular way I'd like to set up my dual, or multi-boot arrangements.

First, the basics. The laptop I want to install on is a Samsung RF511, Intel i5 CPU, 8GB RAM, 750GB HDD. It is running Windows 7 as originally supplied. When learning about partitioning, I shrank the Windows partition and created a new empty partition - so the disk now shows up now as having two 'drives' - of 512GB and 217GB.

Not quite sure which partitions are seen as being on which of the two drives that now notionally exist on this single hard disk. I have looked at the HDD using GParted, and the current configuration is this:

/dev/sda1 ntfs SYSTEM 100.00 MiB boot
/dev/sda2 ntfs 202.00 GiB 63 GiB used (contains Windows7 OS)
/dev/sda3 extended 476.89 GiB lba
/dev/sda5 ntfs 476.88 GiB (currently empty)
/dev/sda4 ntfs SAMSUNG_REC 19.65 GiB 19.63 used diag

Now, what I want is.......

i) to keep Win7, ideally with its MBR intact. I know most stock dual-boots suggest installing the Linux GRUB bootloader instead. But I'd prefer to keep the Windows installation complete and separate rather than having to rebuild or reinstate the Windows MBR if (however unlikely!)I ever revert to Windows only;

ii) to install at least one Linux distro as an alternative, dual-boot, OS on the hard drive. Zorin is one of the options on my shortlist;

iii) a bit more ambitious, to have two or three more Linux distros installed - ie a multiboot setup. My shortlist is Linux Mint, Linux Lite, and PCLinuxOS;

iv) if possible and not too complicated, I'd like to have a single "Data" partition for all my documents, pics etc - at least shared by the Linux distros, if not by the Windows OS as well. This is a separate question. I understand that a Data partition shared by all Linux OSs is possible. But if I want a single Data partition with folders which both Linux and Windows can read, this might require the partition to be formatted to ntfs?

Now for the possible constraints...

v) as mentioned, I want to keep the Windows MBR, not replace it with GRUB;

vi) the Samsung laptop has a "Recovery" partition which I understand is linked with the Samsung OEM backup and recovery software. That partition is at the end of the HDD - if that is relevant. I would not want to lose that;

vii) I know from forum posts that the Linux Lite Grub2 doesn't play nicely with other Linux Grubs (because it has been modified to make dual booting with Windows easier). So I assume this may make a difference to what-grubs-go-where if I seek to have more than one Linux OS in a multiboot setup;

viii) I also know that PCLinuxOS still uses Grub (Legacy) while Zorin, Lite and Mint use Grub2. In simple terms, in a multibooot setup, if Grub2 is the "lead" or only bootloader it can "see" and work with other Grub2s, and with Grub Legacy if updated after each OS is installed; but Legacy cannot detect or connect to Grub2. This, too, seems to make a difference to what-grubs-go-where and how they talk to each other.

So what options - or routes - do I have to set up the arrangements in the way I have indicated?

Is using EasyBCD the only way of installing Linux distros alongside the Windows 7 on the same HDD without modifying or replacing the MBR?

As I understand it, I would need to start by installing one of the Linux distros, including its GRUB2, on a new empty partition (primary or logical??) on my HDD. Easy BCD then - in plain language - provides a 'connection' which tells the Windows bootloader in the MBR to look for and boot from Grub2. Seems simple enough.

But I haven't yet established whether or how Easy BCD can be used to set up more than one Linux OS in a multiboot. Is it just a matter of repeating the same steps (each Linux OS and its Grub into its own partition, then update via Easy BCD)? And does it matter, or make any difference, that PCLinuxOS uses Grub Legacy? And how do I ensure that the existing "Recovery" partition is unaffected?

Am I right to assume that my other objective - of having all my documents in a separate Data partition - can only be sorted out after I have completed the installation of my dual or multiple Linux OSs? It does however seem to me that if I want eventually to do this, then the partitioning (and formatting) of the HDD to create a common Data partition should be planned and done before I begin any of the installing. It also presumably determines whether I have separate /root and /home partitions for each of the Linux OSs when I first install them?

Do I have any ways other than using Easy BCD of putting one or more Linux OSs on to that internal hard drive without messing with the Win7 MBR?

It seems neatest and most practical - if possible - to put my favoured Linux distros on to the internal laptop drive, if there is enough room for them as well as the Windows7.

As an alternative I have contemplated putting my preferred Linux OSs as a multiboot setup on to a separate external USB3 1TB HDD which I happen to have. This would not need Easy BCD. I would then boot into that USB drive using Esc at bootup on the Samsung (like F12 on my older Dell) to bring up the boot options. But I would still need detailed advice on the installation and the sequence in order to ensure that Grub2 and Grub Legacy talked to each other. Guidance on the Linux Lite forums suggests that the Linux Lite Grub2 has to remain the "lead" Grub (because of the modification mentioned above), so has to go on the mbr of that external USB drive. Then the Linux Zorin, Mint and PCLOS Grubs have to go on their respective root partitions. After each install the Lite Grub 2 then has to be updated to "see" the other Grubs.

There would still remain the additional and separate question of how to organise a single shared Data partition to store all my documents etc whichever of the Linux OSs I happen to want to use.

Lots of questions, I know. I'm sure the answer is to do it one step at a time. But i need to have a clear blueprint as to the eventual outcome, if only so that I do the basics (like partitioning) correctly from the start. It seems to make sense first to decide on location (internal HDD or external) then to clarify the exact steps needed for whichever location is chosen.

Any comments and advice would be very welcome....

Hi, GRUB2 is not the default GRUB in 'EasyBCD' - you have to select it as the old GRUB is the default one!

Right, first off GNU/Linux can read NTFS partitions provided they support it natively such as Zorin - you will need to check out the other OS's for your self:

1. Windows has shut down cleanly - it will never read any NTFS partitions if a forced shutdown has occurred before booting into GNU/Linux.

2. As for a separate data partition, how big are you wanting it? Depends on what you want to store - videos can take a very large chunk of your drive for instance.

3. Now you have your 'Extended' Partition I would create the following partitions manually (after you have decided how much data you are likely to save and create an ntfs partition (logical - as a drive will only support 4 Primary partitions - regardless of how many drives you have), using GParted.

a. At start of Extended partition create a 512 Mb partition, formatted to Ext4 and mark it as '/boot' - this is where you are going to place GRUB.

b. 30720 Mib (30 Gb) formatted to Ext4 and mark as '/' ('root' partition where the system resides)

c. At end of partition, create a swap area of 4096 Mb

d. In between will depend on whether you want to install other OS's - you have to make this choice but if no other, the rest mark as '/home' formatted to Ext4

4. Boot into Windows and install Easy BCD - this automatically backs up your existing mbr so you can always go back to it! Now Edit the Bootloader to add an additional OS and rename from NeoSmart to Zorin, mark the Bootloader for it at GRUB2 and point to the OS where 30 Gb partition is to boot into it.

Thanks for such a swift response. A few brief clarifications....

Swarfendor437 wrote:Hi, GRUB2 is not the default GRUB in 'EasyBCD' - you have to select it as the old GRUB is the default one!

I understand that EasyBCD can, and does, allow the choice of Grub2, or Grub Legacy, or other bootloaders (?) from the dropdown list. My uncertainty was whether - if you had more than one Linux OS on the hard drive - could you set the choice of bootloader in EasyBCD to be different for different Linux distros? For example if installing Zorin, you would select Grub2 in Easy BCD. If you later installed PCLOS as well, could you select Grub Legacy, separately, for that?

Right, first off GNU/Linux can read NTFS partitions provided they support it natively such as Zorin - you will need to check out the other OS's for your self:

Will go and research that.....

......As for a separate data partition, how big are you wanting it? Depends on what you want to store - videos can take a very large chunk of your drive for instance.

In the Data partition I'd store docs, music and photos, but not video or films. As I have about 500Gb available and empty, a back-of-envelope reckoning suggests that 200GB should be ample.....maybe 300GB max. That leaves say 200Gb to play with for the various Linux installs. Surely I wouldn't need more than say 50GB in total for each Linux distro?

3. Now you have your 'Extended' Partition I would create the following partitions manually (after you have decided how much data you are likely to save and create an ntfs partition (logical - as a drive will only support 4 Primary partitions - regardless of how many drives you have), using GParted.

Okay. Samsung and Windows7 have created or occupied three primary partitions sda1,2 and 4. I have scope to create one more primary. And I have one extended partition already (sda3). I recall that some Linux distros have to be installed on primary partitions (will have to check regarding my preferred ones). Otherwise it looks as if I will be putting everything into logical partitions within one - or more - extended partitions.

a. At start of Extended partition create a 512 Mb partition, formatted to Ext4 and mark it as '/boot' - this is where you are going to place GRUB.

b. 30720 Mib (30 Gb) formatted to Ext4 and mark as '/' ('root' partition where the system resides)

c. At end of partition, create a swap area of 4096 Mb

So far, so good. This suggests that allowing up to 50-60Gb per distro is do-able and realistic.

d. In between will depend on whether you want to install other OS's - you have to make this choice but if no other, the rest mark as '/home' formatted to Ext4

Yup, that's clear - as far as it goes. If I only have one distro (let's assume Zorin), then within my current empty extended partition sda3 I set up four logical partitions: sda5 (512Mb) as /boot for Grub); sda6 (30Gb) as root (/) for the actual system; sda 7, or 8? (4096Mb) as a swap area at the end of that partition; and sda 8 (or 7?) (size tbc) as a /home partition in the space between. This /home could take up all the remaining space if I only add Zorin. But it presumably could be quite small (10GB or less?) if there is going to be a separate Data partition elsewhere and/or if I want to add more distros.

Now..... the question arises, what if I do want to add a couple more Linux OSs? I am just trying to work my way through the process and in particular the partitioning.

- one swap space can serve all of them. So sda 8 stays as-is. Does it matter where within the extended sda3 partition it sits - beginning, middle or end? Because to add more distros I'll have to create more partitions. is there a limit on how many logical partitions you can have within the one extended partition?

- each new Linux distro will need - at least - its own /root partition. Where do I put the Grub of each new distro? Into the /root partition for that new distro - or alongside the Zorin Grub2 in the sda5 /boot partition I have created for Zorin? If in the same partition, wouldn't one overwrite or conflict with the other?

- will that new distro (let's assume Mint) need both a /root (say 30Gb) and a /home (say 30GB or less) partition? So that's at least sda9 and sda10. Do they go before or after the swap at sda8?

- then adding a third distro will presumably require a further two, or three partitions (sda 11, 12, 13?) Again, before or after the swap at sda8? If swap has to go at the end of the extended partition, how to ensure that? Does the numbering sequence matter?

- and where do I earmark space for the 200 or 300Gb new shared "Data" partition? Will that be sda 14 or whatever within the original sda3 extended partition? Or do I shrink the existing extended partition sda3 and its contents, and create a new and separate extended partition within which to put the Data?

I am just trying to get my head around how the drive, and its partitions, will look after putting two or three Linux distros into it. Is it possible, or would it make more sense, to carve the available empty space into, say, three or four extended partitions (one for each distro, plus one for data). In the distro ones I would then have two or three partitions in each. Or is that unnecessary and overcomplicated? Can one extended partition have as many logical partitions within it as you care to create?

4. Boot into Windows and install Easy BCD - this automatically backs up your existing mbr so you can always go back to it! Now Edit the Bootloader to add an additional OS and rename from NeoSmart to Zorin, mark the Bootloader for it at GRUB2 and point to the OS where 30 Gb partition is to boot into it.

Dumb question, but surely I have to do the partitioning and install Zorin before I set to work in EasyBCD to tell it which OS I have added and what type of bootloader it has and where to find it?

Sorry if I seem to be asking for too much detail, but I'm thinking ahead. I'd rather have the whole route mapped out step-by-step, than simply tackle the first step and then ask 'what do I do now' especially if this then results in having to retrace my steps and re-do, re-size, or re-label partitions I have already done.

OK, First, using Windows Disk Management, set up an Extended Partition and inside of that create your Data Partition, then using any GNU/Linux distro that is Gnome DE based, use GParted to edit the remainder, starting with the 512 Mb '/boot' partition. Now the issue may well be that you have to run an auto-install for all subsequent GNU/Linux installs that makes space of your first one - the downside to that is it does all the partitioning for you and (if memory serves correctly) auto-installs will place GRUB in your MBR, overwriting Windows mbr. Do manual installs for each subsequent one after your 10 Gb '/home' for Zorin. Now as to the '/' root partition, if you are not going to add any more applications to what comes supplied I would shrink '/' to 20 Gb but no less - you will have to check what the minimum requirements of each other OS is - I have placed GRUB on the partition marked '/' before (you aren't supposed to but I did not have any issues with it when I dual-booted with Zorin this way before I had to do the '/boot' thing in Windows 10. Don't worry about the Grub issue as once all GNU/Linux OS's are installed, do an update of the GRUB of the first distribution and it will pick up all the other OS's listed - you only then have one primary GRUB to boot off - now I don't know if legacy will pick up GRUB 2 or other way round - I only ever tried booting 4 OS's before in my early GNU/Linux days of Win XP/ SuSE Linux 9.3 Pro Gnome on one hard drive, and Ubuntu 8.04 and SuSE Linux 9.3 Pro KDE on a second drive - with disastrous results down to (IMHO) the infamous ReiserFS - inferior to Ext3/4 - an experience with a former LXF contributor now working for Linux Voice mag.
Whatever you decide, have fun!

Oh, and just remember don't touch your restore partition - leave alone.

Finally, the reason why I put 'swap area' at the end is following observation after I installed Zorin 6 Ultimate automatically I studied where it put the 'swap area' which was at the end of the drive.

Hope this clarifies things.

Nearly forgot - I have not attempted to have different GNU/Linux OS's on one drive, only Windows and One other OS on at one time. Following a disaster with Windows 10 and using my Windows 7 drive as a place to store System Restore discs I still have not established whether Windows 10 was the culprit, Mozilla Thunderbird in Windows (serious elevation to Administrator flaw can give remote attacker access - I started losing all manner of stuff before managing to back up key data and having to re-install Windows!) I now keep all GNU/Linux distros on separate drives - the beauty of having a desktop over a Notebook - greater configurability but I realise it is not for everyone!
Now I side-tracked - I meant to state about Easy BCD and type of GRUB selection - I cannot see why it will not allow you to change this as it relates to the OS you are creating the entry for in Easy BCD.