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Trying out Zorin from a USB drive

johne53

Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:44:31 am

I'd like to try Linux by installing it onto a USB flash drive. So far I've tried 2 x distros:- Ubuntu and ChaletOS and I installed both from an ISO image, using an app called balenaEtcher.

I don't know if this is a limitation of ISO files (or a limitation of balenaEtcher) but in both cases I only ended up with a 2GB Linux partition - even though I used a 32GB flash drive.

Will the same thing happen if I install Zorin? Or is there a way to install Zorin so it'll use the whole 32GB?

Swarfendor437

Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:06:35 pm

Hi, Balena Etcher is there to create an installation medium - I'm not sure it is there to try as a 'live distro' - only just thought about this! My still preferred USB option is to use MultiSystem - but you need a Linux distribution to be able to run it! Your alternative would be to use Rufus and always remember to format the drive first to FAT3.

MultiSystem: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13887&hilit=+MultiSystem#p60821

Rufus: https://rufus.ie/

I've never got on with Balena Etcher ... period! ;) :D

johne53

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:14:16 pm

Many thanks... I re-built the flash drive using Rufus and it's using all the available size now. And WOW... Zorin creates a very good first impression !!

My only minor criticism is that Rufus left my flash memory formatted as FAT32 (which means I could accidentally write to it in Windows). To be fair to balenaEtcher, although it only created a 2GB partition, it did at least write the partition using a Linux format.

I'm wondering what would happen if I pre-formatted my USB stick as ext3 or ext4 maybe? I can do that quite easily here (even in Windows) but I'm not sure if that'll screw up Rufus :?:

[Edit...] Or is it maybe Zorin that requires FAT32 ??

Aravisian

Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:45:38 pm

johne53 wrote:Many thanks... I re-built the flash drive using Rufus and it's using all the available size now. And WOW... Zorin creates a very good first impression !!

My only minor criticism is that Rufus left my flash memory formatted as FAT32 (which means I could accidentally write to it in Windows). To be fair to balenaEtcher, although it only created a 2GB partition, it did at least write the partition using a Linux format.

I'm wondering what would happen if I pre-formatted my USB stick as ext3 or ext4 maybe? I can do that quite easily here (even in Windows) but I'm not sure if that'll screw up Rufus :?:

[Edit...] Or is it maybe Zorin that requires FAT32 ??

You can usually select the File Format. I use unetbootin (because I do not use Windows) and I know I can select the format. Using FAT32 has clear advantages because most people like to be able to transfer files between the two Operating Systems and most do not consider it a fear that you may accidentally write a file on windows because if you have that fear, you could accidentally write a file on any system in any format. I mean,
Don't do that.
Yes, you can preformat your disk, but when you go to use your USB creator, it will probably check the format anyway. I am not sure about Rufus, as I do not use it, but with Unetbootin, I can select ext4, FAT32, NTFS and so on.

Swarfendor437

Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:21:10 am

You should ALWAYS use FAT32 until M$ start demanding payment for its patent on it. :(

johne53

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:34:00 am

Many thanks guys and sorry about the delay in responding (for some reason, this site doesn't seem to send me notifications when someone replies). I found the UNetbootin web site here:-

https://unetbootin.github.io/

It shows some screenshots from various OS's but I can't see any option for selecting the target partition's format or size. Are the images out of date or am I just missing something??

Aravisian

Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:29:35 pm

johne53 wrote:Many thanks guys and sorry about the delay in responding (for some reason, this site doesn't seem to send me notifications when someone replies). I found the UNetbootin web site here:-

https://unetbootin.github.io/

It shows some screenshots from various OS's but I can't see any option for selecting the target partition's format or size. Are the images out of date or am I just missing something??

You are not missing anything, but I am. Some brain cells, I think.
You are correct and I am wrong- I had forgotten. Each time I used Unetbootin, I formatted first and in my long term stored memory, I must have blended the actions together.
When I formatted, I used Gnome-Disks which comes with Zorin.

I sheepishly look sheepishly asheeped, now.

johne53

Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:30:15 pm

One more thing... after a bit of experimenting I'm starting to realise that running Zorin from a flash drive isn't really that useful. I can get an idea of the 'look & feel' but I can't really do anything useful. For example, if I drag something to my desktop (or even just change some desktop settings) next time I boot up it's all been forgotten... :sad:

Is that typical for Linux flash drives - or is it a consequence of the underlying (FAT32) file system?

Swarfendor437

Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:18:27 pm

When I first started using Zorin at version 4 I gave unetbootin a try and I was greatly disappointed, hence why I don't touch it with the proverbial bargepole. I was trying to add a Zorin. iso to my memory stick. It whirred awy as if it was doing something for over 20 minutes only to report that unetbootin did not currently support it! No such issues with MultiSystem as it uses a drag and drop system so if not supported it reports it immediately. But you need a Linux install first to be able to use it.

Aravisian

Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:12:35 pm

johne53 wrote:One more thing... after a bit of experimenting I'm starting to realise that running Zorin from a flash drive isn't really that useful. I can get an idea of the 'look & feel' but I can't really do anything useful. For example, if I drag something to my desktop (or even just change some desktop settings) next time I boot up it's all been forgotten... :sad:

Is that typical for Linux flash drives - or is it a consequence of the underlying (FAT32) file system?

Try using "With Persistence".

Swarfendor437 wrote:When I first started using Zorin at version 4 I gave unetbootin a try and I was greatly disappointed, hence why I don't touch it with the proverbial bargepole. I was trying to add a Zorin. iso to my memory stick. It whirred awy as if it was doing something for over 20 minutes only to report that unetbootin did not currently support it! No such issues with MultiSystem as it uses a drag and drop system so if not supported it reports it immediately. But you need a Linux install first to be able to use it.

Unetbootin has always worked perfectly for me. But then, there has been some time between Zorin 4 and Zorin 15.

Swarfendor437

Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:13:32 pm

Aravisian wrote:
Swarfendor437 wrote:When I first started using Zorin at version 4 I gave unetbootin a try and I was greatly disappointed, hence why I don't touch it with the proverbial bargepole. I was trying to add a Zorin. iso to my memory stick. It whirred awy as if it was doing something for over 20 minutes only to report that unetbootin did not currently support it! No such issues with MultiSystem as it uses a drag and drop system so if not supported it reports it immediately. But you need a Linux install first to be able to use it.

Unetbootin has always worked perfectly for me. But then, there has been some time between Zorin 4 and Zorin 15.


True, but when you find something as easy as MultiSystem you tend to stick with it. That said it has been a bit problematical - guess donating to the project might lead to a stabler one? Not had issues running isos or 'installing' but had issues with Qemu and VBox that it also comes with to test the isos installed to it. ;) :D

Aravisian

Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:13:27 am

Swarfendor437 wrote:True, but when you find something as easy as MultiSystem you tend to stick with it. That said it has been a bit problematical - guess donating to the project might lead to a stabler one? Not had issues running isos or 'installing' but had issues with Qemu and VBox that it also comes with to test the isos installed to it. ;) :D

I tried MultiSystem and immediately had problems with it. I recall helping another member some months back who was struggling with MultiSystem not working right and ended up suggesting they contact the developer.
This is one of those things... Ford or Chevy? Opinions based on personal experiences. That said, in the time since, I have had no trouble when I used MultiSystem and over-all, it worked very well.
I think it is a fine thing. In having an open forum of discussion, all these ideas get exchanged which lead to new ideas, new experiences and progress.

johne53

Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:05:32 am

Aravisian wrote:
johne53 wrote:One more thing... after a bit of experimenting I'm starting to realise that running Zorin from a flash drive isn't really that useful. I can get an idea of the 'look & feel' but I can't really do anything useful. For example, if I drag something to my desktop (or even just change some desktop settings) next time I boot up it's all been forgotten... :sad:

Is that typical for Linux flash drives - or is it a consequence of the underlying (FAT32) file system?

Try using "With Persistence".


Sorry Aravisian, I don't understand... is that a setting I can select somewhere? (or a polite way of saying I need to be more patient.!) :?:

Aravisian

Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:39:19 am

johne53 wrote:
johne53 wrote:next time I boot up it's all been forgotten... :sad:

Aravisian wrote:Try using "With Persistence".


Sorry Aravisian, I don't understand... is that a setting I can select somewhere? (or a polite way of saying I need to be more patient.!) :?:

Sorry, I get in a hurry, sometimes... I stay pretty busy and I am answering questions in between working.
"With Persistence" means that when you log out or reboot using LiveCD, the settings you had before logging out remain after logging in.
Please see this guide, scroll down to the paragraph about persistence:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD/Persistence

Oh and for future reference, I am not very polite. ;) But at least no one is left wondering what I Really Mean...

johne53

Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:56:05 am

Many thanks Aravisian. Those instructions are for booting from a Live CD. I assumed that booting from a memory stick would be similar but it doesn't seem to be.... :sad:

I created the casper-rw partition okay (in my case, it's ext3 format) but from what I can tell, it isn't getting mounted at boot time. Is there a way to mount it automatically?

And another problem is that according to the instructions, I need to press F6 while booting and add the word persistent to my boot options. But that doesn't seem to work when booting from a memory stick (I don't see the boot-up options displayed anywhere).

Swarfendor437

Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:19:26 pm

This is where Zorin could improve. For example AntiX 19 comes with software to create bootable USB... and persistence. What this means that any data you create while using it stays on the stick. The downside of persistence (just like SSDs) continual writing to it shortens it's life. ;) :D

johne53

Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:43:17 pm

Yeah, I'm sensing there's a "catch 22" situation here... I can't set up persistent mode without having to edit various things. But any edits I make will immediately get forgotten - because I'm not in persistent mode !!

Aravisian

Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:17:41 pm

I have never actually used persistence. I know PCFan used it a lot on Zorin 12.4.

I cannot seem to find much in a search. Let me see if I can find anything by PCFan.
-Ok, I found this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14086
Which links to this one:
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=229086

johne53

Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:50:40 am

Thanks Aravisian

I tried installing Multisystem but it turned out to be Linux only - and currently, my only available Linux is my Zorin flash drive!

I've found a similar app called MultibootUSB which runs on Windows and claims to produce flash drives which support persistence (when installing any Ubuntu-based distro). I'll try it later and report back.

johne53

Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:50:33 am

johne53 wrote:I've found a similar app called MultibootUSB which runs on Windows [...] I'll try it later and report back.


Good and bad... MultibootUSB does allow persistence but (confusingly?) it requires me to select a "size" for the persistence. I selected the maximum size (4GB) and continued. I used the same USB stick which already contains my casper-rw partition.

The finished USB stick tries to boot up and I see the opening Zorin logo - but it then bombs out and shows me a command prompt, with the following error message:-

(initramfs) mount: mounting /cow on /root failed: Invalid argument


Any ideas anyone..?

Swarfendor437

Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:53:53 pm

Aravisian

Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:15:27 pm

johne53 wrote:
johne53 wrote:I've found a similar app called MultibootUSB which runs on Windows [...] I'll try it later and report back.


Good and bad... MultibootUSB does allow persistence but (confusingly?) it requires me to select a "size" for the persistence. I selected the maximum size (4GB) and continued. I used the same USB stick which already contains my casper-rw partition.

The finished USB stick tries to boot up and I see the opening Zorin logo - but it then bombs out and shows me a command prompt, with the following error message:-

(initramfs) mount: mounting /cow on /root failed: Invalid argument


Any ideas anyone..?

I think I would fail to mount a cow, as well. Honestly, if it was me, I would start the process over from scratch - Format the USB stick, set up persistence, create the bootable medium, all in one solid go to ensure nothing got corrupted or mistakes were made.

johne53

Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:59:41 pm

Aravisian wrote:if it was me, I would start the process over from scratch - Format the USB stick, set up persistence, create the bootable medium, all in one solid go to ensure nothing got corrupted or mistakes were made.


Yeah, I've done that several times today but it just goes from bad to worse...

After I posted this morning I decided to reformat and try Ubuntu (v18.04.3), That gave me the same error as Zorin from this morning. So I tried a couple of different 'pesistent' sizes but they all gave the same error. However, selecting a size of zero gave me a bootable USB stick (albeit without the persistence option). So I just downloaded the very latest Ubuntu ISO (v19.10). But when MultibootUSB mounts it, it doesn't even offer any option for persistence any more :sad:

So I'm starting to wonder if persistence stopped working at some point during v18 and it's now been removed altogether?

It's getting late here (UK time) but I'll email the MultiBootUSB makers overnight and ask if they know about these problems.

Thanks for everyone's help here.

Swarfendor437

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:02:12 am

Did you bother to read those links? Persistence will not work, even in 19.04 and the second link explains how to solve the issue! :roll:

johne53

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:11:02 am

I've done lots of reading and tried countless suggestions but absolutely nothing has worked :sad:

This is actually my second excursion into the world of Linux (the first was about 8 years ago). Even back then, almost nothing would work out-of-the-box and I spent months, forever having to delve into obscure OS files and edit things manually.

Linux is certainly a more "professional looking" OS these days but under the hood, it doesn't feel as if much has changed. I genuinely wanted to give Linux another try (esp. Zorin which looks very user friendly) but this is basic, elementary stuff... Things like file saving should "just work" - and even if persistence defaults to "off" it should be a simple, one-click operation to turn it back on.

Maybe I'll try Linux again in another 8 years' time - but for the moment, I think I'll stick with Windows and Mac where things like this generally do work...

[Rant over...]

Aravisian

Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:30:37 am

johne53 wrote:I've done lots of reading and tried countless suggestions but absolutely nothing has worked :sad:

This is actually my second excursion into the world of Linux (the first was about 8 years ago). Even back then, almost nothing would work out-of-the-box and I spent months, forever having to delve into obscure OS files and edit things manually.

Linux is certainly a more "professional looking" OS these days but under the hood, it doesn't feel as if much has changed. I genuinely wanted to give Linux another try (esp. Zorin which looks very user friendly) but this is basic, elementary stuff... Things like file saving should "just work" - and even if persistence defaults to "off" it should be a simple, one-click operation to turn it back on.

Maybe I'll try Linux again in another 8 years' time - but for the moment, I think I'll stick with Windows and Mac where things like this generally do work...

[Rant over...]

Persistence is not an easy thing to get to work. Honestly, I never use it, myself.
Can you use persistence on Windows? You didn't even know what it was until I suggested it as a possible thing to try out. The reason why many feel Windows Works "as it should" is because Windows is Standardized. It's cookie cutter.
All development in one place vetted by one source.
Linux is Open Source and you have many developers. This allows fresh ideas, new perspectives and more developers at work. That's a pro- as a con, it is not so standardized.
But I think that is a pro.
Either way, gauging that Linux is not usable because one test of Persistence, an unusual practice at best, did not work out for you this time seems to me like giving up way too easily.
Let me relay to you my experiences...

In using Windows for most of my life, I often had installers and software not work out of the box. Oh, it usually did... But often enough, it did not.
Getting help for it is not so easy. Windows Is The Most Used OS in the world. There is a huge community of users. Yet, in spite of that, getting tech support on windows is like pulling teeth from a jaguar. I have gotten far more help and better help using Linux from the much smaller Linux community than I ever got with Windows.
Yes, when I first tried Linux, I had a lot of troubles. Most of my troubles were also self-inflicted. I had no idea how to use the operating system. I had a lot of troubles when I first tried out Windows XP pro, too.
And don't get me started on Windows Vista or Windows 8 and frankly, Windows 10 is a massive resource hog that not only bogs down your computer with bloat, it uses your computer and your network that you pay for as a server to provide the updates for everyone else (yup) and you pay MS for a subscription for them to use you for free...
Not to mention the electronics you paid a lot of money for getting bricked by greedy Big Corporations.
johne53, I certainly understand the frustration of getting started.
But I would encourage you to not try dipping your toe in the water. Toss the idea of persistence and Install The O.S.
I spent probably two weeks grumbling and cussing after I installed Zorin for the first time. I hated it. ...HATED... it.
But, I stuck with it and after a bit of time, I began to learn, began to understand how to use it. I am still novice... But knowing now what I know, I will NEVER go back to Windows. And I do not hate Zorin nor Linux at all, now. Just was a rough start is all and much of that was due to my lack of knowledge. Nothing learning can't fix.:D
And yes, Most Things work on Linux. By Far.
Most often, when things don't work, the fault lies in the chair in front of the computer. On forums like this, we tend to be as polite as possible in relaying that by simply guiding the user to the right steps.
But we all know it to be true... It's like a person that learned to drive in an Automatic car driving a standard for the first time. They are usually blaming the car. After they get the hang of it and especially if they have to drive on Ice... they don't want the automatic ever again.
I regret that I do not know enough about persistence to help. maybe an answer is still forthcoming that can help you. But in the meantime, you could Dual Boot that puppy and Really get in there and actually give it a chance instead of a glance.

johne53

Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:12:00 am

Okay you've convinced me! I'll spend a couple of days chilling out and then try again...

BTW, the reason I want to start off with a USB stick is because when I first tried Linux (8 years ago) I literally went through 11 different distros before finding one I liked !!!

Aravisian

Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:18:50 am

johne53 wrote:Okay you've convinced me! I'll spend a couple of days chilling out and then try again...

BTW, the reason I want to start off with a USB stick is because when I first tried Linux (8 years ago) I literally went through 11 different distros before finding one I liked !!!

I understand that.
The best I can offer is a very flawed analogy...

Test Driving a car. Looking at houses. Finding a girlfriend...
We often take the idea of trying before we buy for granted but in the end, it often doesn't do squat. At the most basic level, yeah we see what something looks like...
The car is clean and no dents. The house has a great floor plan. The girl is pretty.
Problem is, the car has bad head gaskets, holes in the muffler, bad O2 sensors and leaking oil pan. The house has toxic mold, a broken main sewer line and tree roots are getting into it. The girl is petty, self-absorbed, a bit of a user and talks bad about you to her girlfriends.
All the stuff you cannot see until you just Go For It. And yeah... Sometimes you feel like you wasted your time.

But you didn't. Each is an experience that teaches you something. Sometimes, it teaches you how to replace a headcasket and keep on rollin' and other times, it teaches you how to get over the girl and look elsewhere.

I think Operating Systems are not really any different. Maybe you won't settle on Zorin OS. But you can start on it, use it to learn the basics. Use it to help you progress and advance. Once you have some terminal skills under your belt and have a good grasp of package management, maybe you can start Distro-hopping as most of us invariably do.

For me, personally, Zorin has become Home OS. I distro hop often but always come back to Zorin. They way it is set up is more rugged than most and I find I can install odd-ball software on it without breaking it like some other distros I try. I can tweak the nuts out of it and it keeps working. Some Distros, I couldn't get to work even when handling with care.
Some might say that in the end, the OS I end up using is no longer Zorin- I have changed it into something else. That's true of any Distro, though.


Sometimes, the girl isn't that pretty but gets prettier the more you get to know her.

Swarfendor437

Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:09:33 pm

Also remember that mos Linux distros these days are ntfs-3g compliant so that you could mount the hard drive of the machine you were running the usb from (I think) and save to the hard drive. Your other option is to simply use another memory stick for data. Persistence is basically so that your OS and data remain intact on the same USB stick. Having a second stick for data might be the way forward. Someon gave a very good sticky novel way of creating persistence for Zorin 9 but I would have to wade through the How-to's section to find it! ;) :D

zabadabadoo

Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:12:31 pm

My first experiment with Linux was with Zorin 12.4 Core, on a 4GB USB drive with persistence set to 2048MB. That allowed me to play with some of the user settings and software changes which gave me a fair feeling of what I could expect when I installed Zorin on HDD. I accepted Z12 running like a 3 legged dog from USB as nothing would be harmed if I messed up. I used unetbootin to create the Live USB at the time and have stuck with it since.
I reformatted the same 4GB USB and used unetbootin to created a Zorin 15 Core live USB earlier this year, same 2048MB persistence, really to compare Z12.4 and Z15 look and feel after its release. I have since installed Z15 Core replacing Z12.4 Core on my old laptop HDD.
Are you guys saying you can't create a Z15 Live USB with persistence, as I am pretty certain that is exactly what I did a few months back.

johne53

Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:52:18 am

zabadabadoo wrote:Are you guys saying you can't create a Z15 Live USB with persistence, as I am pretty certain that is exactly what I did a few months back.


I'm planning to try this again during the Christmas holiday period - but up until now, I haven't found any way to produce a USB drive with persistence, using any Windows app. It's apparently possible by manually editing your iso file (using a hex editor) but there's no simple way to achieve it AFAIK (at least, not with the latest versions of Zorin or Ubuntu).

If it used to be possible with an older version I'd love to try that first... is it still possible to download the iso's for earlier versions of Zorin?

Swarfendor437

Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:16:07 pm

Hi, See if henriolavi's tutorial helps:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6585&p=31247&hilit=persistence#p31247

You might be restricted to Zorin Lite as henriolavi stipulates 32-bit Zorin which is not available for Core. ;) :D

Swarfendor437

Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:06:04 pm

You could try this guide but this is based on an installed Linux and using Linux to create the USB with persistence:

https://technastic.com/create-a-persistent-ubuntu-usb/

Which you could achieve by creating a VHD of Zorin, using Virtual Box on Windows. ;) :D

Alternatively:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/1116708 ... ng-windows

johne53

Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:50:19 pm

Swarfendor437 wrote:Hi, See if henriolavi's tutorial helps:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6585&p=31247&hilit=persistence#p31247


That was a great find Swarfendor437 and thanks for tracking it down. It led me to a USB creator called UUI which (interestingly) looked almost identical to one I'd tried earlier, called MultibootUSB. But unlike MultibootUSB, this new one generated a bootable USB stick and I'm pleased to report that persistence is (finally!!) working. Woohoo!

Swarfendor437

Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:15:23 pm

Glad it worked for you! ;) :D