[SOLVED] Install Z5 Core to /dev/sda5 -- how??

Hi all -- especially Wolfman:
I wish to try out Zorin. I have downloaded and burned Z5.2-64bit. The MD5 checks out. I have an Acer notebook that I multiboot Windows 7 and Linux. I've done a number of distros over the last couple of years, so I'm not a complete newbie. I have also researched this problem in this forum before joining so I could post. My configuration is that I have:
/dev/sda1 which is a hidden partition placed there by Acer as a Windows recovery partition.
/dev/sda2 which is the Windows 7 partition
/dev/sda3 /swap
/dev/sda5 / EXT4
/dev/sda6 /home EXT4
In /dev/sda2 (Windows7) I use EasyBCD to control the multibooting.
I wish to install Zorin into /dev/sda5 WITH THE GRUB BEING INSTALLED THERE -- NOT IN THE MBR

In a post Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:39 pm titled: "Help me install Z5 Core in existing ntfs partition", Wolfman responded to the OP with:
1. download gparted and burn it to a CD
2. boot your PC with gparted CD inserted and start gparted
3. delete your existing linux partitions
4. in the empty space that you now have, create an "extended" partition
5. within the extended partition, create a "root "/" a swap (swap has no mount point) and a /home partition (/home)
6. apply changes and let gparted do its thing
7. restart PC with Zorin disk inserted and let it boot fully
8. choose to install Zorin and when it comes to the part about how you wish to install, select "something else" and you can then point the installer to the partitions you just created
9. underneath the window where you can see you partition list is a bar asking you where the bootloader should be installed, it should say something like:
/dev/sda ATA xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. this is normally the MBR (master boot record) of your hard drive.
10. you should not need a 3rd party bootloader to select the OS you wish to boot as Zorin will install grub in the mbr.

And therein lies the problem. Several people have posted regarding the problem and Wolfman, who seems quite knowledgeable, but in this case seems to have misunderstood the OP's question. In his point 10 he states "as Zorin will install grub in the mbr". The OP in that thread, and myself in this one, and others in other threads all have the same problem. THE INSTALL SCRIPT IS BROKEN. Sorry for raising my voice, but it's a bit frustrating when others have posted the same question as I am and nobody has yet to offer a solution.

The screen where the partitions are created and configured has a part at the bottom that seems to offer the ability to choose where to have the GRUB bootloader installed, but it only offers /dev/sda rather than a dropdown showing all the partitions available.

Does anyone know how to get past this and have the bootloader install to /dev/sda5 (or anything other than /dev/sda)? Is there a fix coming for the install script in future releases?

Hi,

firstly; thanks for your input and comments, we need to know whats wrong so it can get fixed.

Your point about the installer scripts not working is new to me, I have found that most problems can be solved by burning the CD/DVD at the slowest speed which would avoid write errors.

If there is a problem with the installer script then you need to contact Admin; as I am only a moderator and have no way of configuring the ISO data!!.

My point about installing the bootloader to /dev/sda ATA xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx is quite simple, I don't use a third party BTLDR and therefore am quite happy to install GRUB to /dev/sda ATA xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. If as you say that the installer is not working correctly; I cannot help you further if the drop-down menu is not available and which is preventing you from selecting the place where you wish your bootloader to be installed. You are right of course about selecting where the bootloader should be placed, without the drop-down menu this option is dead!!.

You have stated that you checked the disk for errors with MD5 and it is okay, well I can say that even if it gives you the all-clear, the disk may still be damaged if you did not burn it at the slowest possible speed, I would burn a new disk at the slowest possible speed and try again!!. (Assuming you didn't burn it at the slowest speed!!)

Here is a link about installing the bootloader etc: (as you wish to use a 3rd party bootloader; see the section: "Master Boot Record and Boot Manager")

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot

Sorry that I cannot be of further help to you at this moment in time.

Regards Wolfman

Thank you both for your replies.

The way made my original post was, in hindsight, rather forceful and strongly worded. For that I apologize to all those in the forum, especially the moderators (i.e. yourselves).

I do understand and agree that, for most people the MBR is the logical place for the linux boot-loader to be installed, and then to let it provide access to the Linux OS and the Windows OS. It just doesn't happen to suit me.

My reason is that, in order preserve access to the hidden Windows recovery partition that Acer puts on its laptops, I have to protect and preserve the very special MBR it uses. I am not the only one. There was another poster in this forum that had exactly the same situation as I do. He also wished to install the Grub into the same partition as the Zorin (in my case, that's /dev/sda5).

The issue is not a matter of a personal preference of doing it one way versus another different, but equally good, way. In my case, there is only one way that will work, and it's to put Grub in /dev/sda5, not in the MBR.

I have installed a fair number of Linux distros, including a lot based on Ubuntu. Every single one of them gave me the option to choose where it should install Grub. The only one I've seen that does not is Zorin.

One of you suggested that I write to Admin. I did send an email to zorink but got a form letter back telling me to post to the forum, so I did. Is there another Admin you could suggest?

Also, have either one of you -- or anyone else reading this -- that has done an install of ZorinOS5 and been able to choose a boot-loader location other than /dev/sda?

Hi,

I also have a Windows recovery partition on my Packard Bell Notebook and have left it intact for eventual recovery. I installed my bootloader to the MBR and still have an option to boot to the recovery partition in the GRUB boot menu!!. What I am saying is: I think even if you install your bootloader elsewhere on your drive, it won't make much difference to recovering the Windows system if necessary!!.

You don't have to be sorry about your post, you have a valid point!!.

Regards Wolfman

Have been looking at your problem. I have an Acer laptop set-up to dual boot the same way that you want the difference is my root / partition is before the swap partition and it works perfectly. I think this is because you can only boot from up to 3 partitions from the start ?. It's worth a try.

Auldyin wrote:Have been looking at your problem. I have an Acer laptop set-up to dual boot the same way that you want the difference is my root / partition is before the swap partition and it works perfectly. I think this is because you can only boot from up to 3 partitions from the start ?. It's worth a try.

Hi Auldyin,

could you enlighten us all by explaining how you have your GRUB setup laid out, perhaps we can find a solution for "cmbcnc".

I also have my root partition before my swap!!.

Regards Wolfman

Hello Wolfman

My installation is almost as advised here http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2011/05/22/ho ... ntu-11-04/ except I did not create a boot partition but just used the root / partition as "Device for boot loader Installation" e.g. Grub . But my main point was that the partition used to boot from must be close to the start of the Hard Drive.

Cheers Aldyin

HI everyone.

This thread is getting interesting.

I could try backing up my /home partition and trying again after rearranging the sequence of partitions. If I understand you correctly, you think that the rearrangement will make the script give me options for installing Grub that are not there now.

Before I do try rearranging everything, perhaps I could ask all of you: "If Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Mint, and several other *buntu based distros all give me the option of where to install the boot-loader with my current arrangement of partitions, why does ZorinOS not do so?"

It's that question that most puzzles me and is the reason I said in the original post that the install script is broken.

Comments please.

"I could try backing up my /home partition and trying again after rearranging the sequence of partitions. If I understand you correctly, you think that the rearrangement will make the script give me options for installing Grub that are not there now."


Hello cmbcne

I think the problem is the way that Acer sets-up the recovery partition on the hard drive it restricts how the drive can be used, it seems that any boot partitions must be close to the start of the drive no more than half way depending on the size of the drive. If you are installing Zorin 5.2 I would suggest that if you want to boot from the root / you get it as close to the start of the drive as possible and as 5.2 no longer uses swap but Zram try not installing a swap partition this gives one less partition and a little bit more space to the home partition.

Have fun Auldyin

HI again everyone.
Auldyin said: "I think the problem is the way that Acer sets-up the recovery partition on the hard drive it restricts how the drive can be used, it seems that any boot partitions must be close to the start of the drive no more than half way depending on the size of the drive. If you are installing Zorin 5.2 I would suggest that if you want to boot from the root / you get it as close to the start of the drive as possible and as 5.2 no longer uses swap but Zram try not installing a swap partition this gives one less partition and a little bit more space to the home partition."

OK, so what you're saying is that it's something about the way Zorin works that means (a) I don't need swap, and (b) it cannot install Grub to anything but MBR. Or did you mean that getting rid of swap and moving "/" to be a primary partition would give me the ability to put grub in "/"?

It still puzzles me how all those other *buntu based distros work fine with the partitions as they are, but not Zorin which is also based on Ubuntu.

I wish zorink could "inject" himself into the discussion to say definitively whether the install script is written to only allow an MBR install of grub. If it is written that way, I will, quite sadly, leave ZorinOS and move to another distro.

Hi,

to be quite honest, I don't really see that it makes much difference where GRUB is installed, the only real issue would be that it didn't work correctly afterwards!!. As I said in an earlier post, I have it installed to the MBR and it works fine!!.

You could install it (Zorin OS) and update the system then try "Boot repair" and see if you can make a "work around" with that!!.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair

Regards Wolfman

Hi Wolfman.

You said: "I don't really see that it makes much difference where GRUB is installed".

It DOES make a difference to me. If I install Grub to the MBR it will destroy the VERY SPECIAL (i.e. Non Standard) MBR that Acer puts on their drives. It will destroy my ability to recover the Windows that came with my laptop, so I cannot and will not do that.

Also, I still have not had an answer to the question of how all the other distros I've tried, many of them *buntu based, allow installation to my /dev/sda5 but Zorin does not.

Thank you for trying to help, but advice about how easy it is to put Grub in the MBR, or how to "repair" the boot-loader if it gets messed up are irrelevant. The question I posted has to do with how I can install Grub to /dev/sda5 and all the answers so far have avoided answering that question.

Please, does anyone know the answer to that question? Or can anyone authoritatively state that it cannot be done?

cmbcne I posted a reply to your last post this afternoon but it hasn't shown up yet but the anser is yes you can install grub to the root "/" on an extended partition because that's what I have done.
But on some Acer computers because of the recovery partition, at the start of the Hard drive, the physical location of any partition used to boot from must be close to the start of the drive.
Have you tried putting your root / before the swap yet ?.


This is my Hard drive setup


[img][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Vs2mJ.png[/img][/img]

Auldyin wrote:cmbcne I posted a reply to your last post this afternoon but it hasn't shown up yet but the anser is yes you can install grub to the root "/" on an extended partition because that's what I have done.
But on some Acer computers because of the recovery partition, at the start of the Hard drive, the physical location of any partition used to boot from must be close to the start of the drive.
Have you tried putting your root / before the swap yet ?.
<snip>

Thanks Auldyin.

I think I understand now what you were saying. No I haven't tried doing it yet, but I'll back up my /home just in case and try it this weekend.

Also on your question about whether a swap is needed. In the info about 5.2 it states That the swap is not used but is replaced with a program Zram. If I was doing a new install I would try without a swap but I don't know if this is o.k. maybe someone could tell us. ???

HI guys (at least I assume you are all guys) <grin>

SUCCESS!!!!

Thanks to Auldyin's suggestions, it now installs. It looks like he was right about the sequence of partitions on some Acer laptops. I've tried to attach a shot of how the drive looks now. Moving the "/" partition to /dev/sda3 did the trick. The Zorin installer now offered it as a location for Grub's install.

Now my only problem is getting the bloody built-in microphone to work with Skype. That's nothing to do with Zorin though -- all the *buntu distros are broken in that regard.

Hi,

glad to hear it!!

With regard to Skype, go to audio settings in the Skype options menu and take out the tick where it says "Allow Skype to control audio". Then open the volume settings and check that the the slider is on 100% in the section "input" and that the correct hardware is selected in the list!!.

Regards Wolfman

Auldyin wrote:Also on your question about whether a swap is needed. In the info about 5.2 it states That the swap is not used but is replaced with a program Zram. If I was doing a new install I would try without a swap but I don't know if this is o.k. maybe someone could tell us. ???

Hi Auldyin,

please go to the link I posted below, it is an FAQ about Swap.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq

Regards Wolfman

On both my computers; if I want to re-install Windows; I have to completely delete all the Linux partitions and format them all using the recovery disk or by using the recovery partition!!. It is the only way I can re-install Windows!!.

Regards Wolfman

Hi all

Glad we got the problem fixed

Now for Skype
Here is my Skype sound settings >>>>>






Here is my Sound Hardware settings >>>>>>







My sound Input settings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>











Now on the swap Having read the link posted by Wolfman

My conclusion is --- Because WE ALL NOW have LOADS of Memory and Hard Disk space. On Zorin 5.2 we don't need swap unless we use Hibernation. Discuss

Cheers Aldyin

Might as well give the Output

Take the tick out of "Allow Skype to control the volume".

Then check input in the sound manager!!.

Regards Wolfman

Auldyin wrote:Hi all

Glad we got the problem fixed
Now for Skype
<SNIP>
Now on the swap
<SNIP>
Cheers Aldyin

HI again.

YOU DA MAN!

The pictures were a big help. My actual hardware shows up as slightly different, but I was able to figure it out. Sometimes what you need is someone to tell you where to look, then use common sense, which I did.

Regarding the swap: as you noticed in the screen shot of my new partition layout, I still have a swap. I spend time two or three times a year trying out different distros to stay abreast of the developing world of the Linux desktop so I can advise others. I left the swap there for those situation where I try out a distro that is not as forward thinking as Zorin. I am impressed so far with Zorin, but I will not be on it forever. I have, however, already suggested it to someone else who expressed an interest in trying Linux.

Thanks to everyone for the help, insight, and interesting discussion.