[RESOLVED] Error during installation alongside W10

Hello everyone,

I've been trying to install Zorin OS 15.2 Core on a laptop currently running Windows 10. I'm trying to setup dual-boot so that I can choose which OS to use at startup. I've successfully done this previously on a different laptop, running Windows 7, but this time I'm having an error constantly as shown in the attached screenshot.

I tried it from a live USB image to make sure everything works and then use the installer, choosing the option "install alongside Windows". However, the installer insists on using one of the partitions already in use (it provides a slider to choose sizes, but I cannot change which partition to use) so I choose the 'advanced options' and try to create it manually. Maybe this is what I'm dong wrong, please advise if that's the case although I'm afraid it'll overwrite something it shouldn't.

Reading other threads here it was mentioned that you can only have 4 partitions, but the partition table of the drive is GPT which I understand can have up to 128 primary partitions. Another thread mentions that I should choose `/boot` or `/boot/efi` as the mounting point for one booting partition, and then the actual filesystem with `/`. As I mentioned I tried this process multiple times, and tried several combinations of mounting points, partitions, separate partitions for EFI and file system (and mounting points), etc.

Unfortunately, this is as far as my technical "expertise" goes and I'm not quite sure how to figure this one out. I'm obviously doing something wrong and I could use some help. By the way, the error always happens after this step, no matter what I choose: it asks for details to create the username and after a few seconds it errors out. Also, the error message seems to be completely unrelated... maybe the USB didn't format properly (but the live image works?)

Some information about the laptop:

1. Name (Brand) of Computer Tower/System, Notebook Brand and model [Notebook = misnomer of 'Laptop' ]
Asus X556UA

2. Amount of available Memory (RAM)
12GB

3. Whether Zorin is the only OS on the computer or dual-boot (e.g. Windows [and which version of Windows!] and Zorin).
Windows 10 Home 64 bits (18362) is installed. I'm trying to install ZorinOS 15.2 Core along side it (dual boot).

4. Hard Drive partitioning.

Partition / Name / File System / Size / Flags
/dev/sda1 / EFI system partition / fat32 / 260MiB / boot,esp
/dev/sda2 / Microsoft reserved partition / unknown / 16MiB / msftres
/dev/sda3 / Basic data partition / ntfs / 371GiB / msftdata
/dev/sda4 / Basic data partition / ntfs / 550MiB / hidden,diag
/dev/sda5 unallocated 560GiB (ZorinOS should go here)

5. Graphics card make and model, or Graphics chipset in respect of Notebooks.
Intel HD Graphics 520

6. Audio chips/Soundcard
Realtek High Definition Audio

7. Wireless Dongle or PCI Card, or Wireless chipset.
Forgot to check this one... I can find out if it's important (internet works in live mode)

8. Whether you ran Zorin Live first to check it worked before installing.
Yes, tried live from usb first and works fine (video, audio, keyboard, documents, wifi...)

9. Which version of Zorin you have installed/have in mind to install.
Zorins 15.2 Core

Another question, can I update from Core to Ultimate once installation is done? Thank you all so much for your help!

It cannot be more than four partitions. You have 5, currently. Are you able to consolidate the space you are using on your HDD?

That's what I was afraid of, since I'm not really comfortable messing with any of the existing partitions. One of them is used for Windows Recovery, if I back it up to an external drive, do you know it it would still work in case I ever need to restore W10, or does it have to be present in the same drive as the OS?

zenzen wrote:That's what I was afraid of, since I'm not really comfortable messing with any of the existing partitions. One of them is used for Windows Recovery, if I back it up to an external drive, do you know it it would still work in case I ever need to restore W10, or does it have to be present in the same drive as the OS?

Honestly, I do not know for sure. I would hazard a guess that it should... Logically, it should. But with Microsoft... You can never be sure. There may be a "reason" why they do not want a backup of a recovery to work.
What you show is:

Partition / Name / File System / Size / Flags
/dev/sda1 / EFI system partition / fat32 / 260MiB / boot,esp
/dev/sda2 / Microsoft reserved partition / unknown / 16MiB / msftres
/dev/sda3 / Basic data partition / ntfs / 371GiB / msftdata
/dev/sda4 / Basic data partition / ntfs / 550MiB / hidden,diag
/dev/sda5 unallocated 560GiB (ZorinOS should go here)

sda1 is a system partition for all boot managers, Operating System independent. -Must Keep
sda2 is your MS recovery partition -Must Keep if you are dual booting and keeping Windows
sda3 seems to be where the meat is, your OS and data. -Must Keep if you are dual booting and keeping Windows
sda4 - This partition is marked as Flagged; Hidden or Diagnostic/Recovery. Windows or boot is supposed to ignore this partition (That is what "hidden" means), but I can tell you, Windows will not ignore it. I do not know why this is there... Many distributors of PC's with Windows Loaded add partitions to suit their own needs. Sometimes a PC comes with Windows and7 or 8 partitions on it. It is most likely a manufactuers recovery partition dealing with device drivers, which is why it is flagged as hidden from MS Windows.
This sda4 is a likely candidate to go. But I can certainly not guarantee that without knowing more about what its purpose is. If you delete sda4, then sda5 can take its place at its current size.

Totally agree, Windows has a track record of refusing to play nice with others

I've been reading about the Microsoft Reserved Partition and seems to be used for updates and such. The Windows built-in recovery tool uses that fourth partition data, so that's the only thing that would not work if removed but as you said it may complain right away as well... I'd be willing to take the risk, however, this laptop is not for me and don't want to mess things up. My goal here is to convince people to use Linux (and for good reason, this laptop takes 20 minutes to boot up and become usable even with the specs it has).

So, this leaves me with a couple of questions about partitions:
1. How can I backup the contents of an entire partition, is `dd` the right tool for this?
2. Please correct me if I'm wrong with this, but if I "delete" the partition from the partition table the data will still be physically there. What if I create that 5th partition first, and then delete the 4th partition? That data should remain untouched even after some use, is that correct? I will still back it up, but just in case... and is not too big so I can spare the disk space.

Thanks a lot for the help!

EDIT: I was thinking about installing the Ultimate version, I suppose the installation steps are the same but just to be sure, are there any special requirements? Thanks!

I tried responding yesterday but had internet issues at home (again! ).

Your best bet is to backup the entire drive using Rescuezilla (https://rescuezilla.com/) - formerly redobackup - the developer of rescuezilla has picked up where the dev of redobackup left off. Redobackup is still available I think but rescuezilla is better as it is EFI compliant - redobackup isn't.
Another option for you would be to install Virtual Box and run Zorin as a VM (Virtual Machine). That said, VB's maximum graphics allocation is limited to 128 Mb of Graphics memory and the menu blurs when you scroll it!

The thing is I'm trying to get this laptop to work smoothly, as it takes a very long time to become usable (even the simplest things respond with a massive delay), so by the time a virtual machine can run, I no longer need it! I know I could do a fresh install of W10 but it'd be a matter of time until it bloats itself to an unusable state.

Thank you for the help, I'll try Rescuezilla and give it a try. If it all fails then I'll just leave things as they are, but hopefully that won't be necessary

zenzen wrote:So, this leaves me with a couple of questions about partitions:
1. How can I backup the contents of an entire partition, is `dd` the right tool for this?
2. Please correct me if I'm wrong with this, but if I "delete" the partition from the partition table the data will still be physically there. What if I create that 5th partition first, and then delete the 4th partition? That data should remain untouched even after some use, is that correct? I will still back it up, but just in case... and is not too big so I can spare the disk space.

Thanks a lot for the help!

EDIT: I was thinking about installing the Ultimate version, I suppose the installation steps are the same but just to be sure, are there any special requirements? Thanks!

Swarfendor answered already about using rescuezilla, so I will skip the first.
Installing Ultimate is the same steps as Core.

On partitions... The simplest management for discussing partitions on a forum is to focus only on Installation Needs.
The complex topic deals with whether partitions are Primary or Logical.
You can only ever have Four Primary Partitions, no matter the OS used. This is a restriction imposed by the Master Boot Record (MBR).
Those that wanted a work around for this developed the Extended Partition which is a Primary Partition - but can be then broken down into several Logical Partitions. These are called Logical Partitions and there can be as many as 24 of them.
In this way, Manufacturers and Developers can by-pass the restriction of 4 Partitions; but keep in mind that some partitions will actually be under one Primary Partition.
What happens to a Logical partition when it is deleted is different from what happens to a Primary partition when deleted.
If you delete a partition, the data remains on the drive; however, if you expand another partition into that space, it may overwrite that data upon installation of a new medium.

Using Windows 10 when it's updates and access have become unusable is a major issue. Part of this is because MS has changed how it does updates. Instead of paying money for servers that handle updates, MS now highjacks User Owned Computers to act as those update servers. So, when a person updates Win 10, rather than those updates coming from the MS Server, it now comes from other users that have the update already, while those users are unaware that their machine is being used- all as MS Charges them Money. MS Users Pay MS for the privilege of being their servers (Insanity). You would not have this problem at all using Linux.
It begs the question: Many users migrating from Windows to Linux feel the need to keep MS Win as an alternative just in case. For some, this is true. Some apps or Software is written only for Windows.
However, I have experienced that most people Do Not Need Windows even if they are used to using Office instead of Libreoffice.
Do you really Need Windows?

Well, I was not aware of the extent that Microsoft has gone to abuse it's paying customers. The update process has been disastrous for a while now, and it was precisely Microsoft trying to force-update my machine to W10 a few years ago that made me change to Linux. I've been a happy user ever since, recently discovered ZorinOS, installed it, and is one of my favorite distros right now!

No, I don't need Windows at all. However, this machine is not for me. Is for a friend who had a bad experience with Ubuntu recently, and is only willing to give it another try because his computer is already way too slow to keep using it comfortably.

I already launched ZorinOS Core from a live usb drive and he liked it, so that's a good sign. But there are a few programs he's not ready to give up from Windows; while surely there are prefectly valid alternatives in Linux, I don't want to push it. Old habits die hard as they say. This is probably my only chance to make Linux look like a viable alternative, otherwise him and others in our circle of friends will never want to hear about switching again. Hence my double checking everything with you guys, thank you so much again for the help.

About the drive partitions, I've been reading quite a lot recently about it but your explanation summarizes it nicely. I'll do my best to follow the advise given here.

zenzen wrote:But there are a few programs he's not ready to give up from Windows; while surely there are prefectly valid alternatives in Linux, I don't want to push it. Old habits die hard as they say. This is probably my only chance to make Linux look like a viable alternative, otherwise him and others in our circle of friends will never want to hear about switching again. Hence my double checking everything with you guys, thank you so much again for the help.

About the drive partitions, I've been reading quite a lot recently about it but your explanation summarizes it nicely. I'll do my best to follow the advise given here.

You are right. A person must be free to choose for themselves. Otherwise, they will resist.
In my own experience, I will point out that dual-booting usually results in them only booting into Windows because that is what they are familiar with and do not have to learn anything new or feel lost if something happens they are not familiar with.

It does not matter what OS a person uses, there will always be troubleshooting needed for such a complex structure. Many people use Windows, cussing the whole while, complaining and discouraged by its behavior... But then they try out a Linux distro and the Very First Problem that comes up- They hate it.

So usually, I suggest Swarfendors approach- Install Only Linux.
Then, use Windows for Windows Necessary Applications in Virtualbox. This "forces" the user to boot into Linux, first. Then, if they just HAVE to use Windows, they have to jump through a few hoops, nothing painful, but annoying enough to put pressure to look for an easier way of doing things. Easier as in, just loading an app made for Linux.
This allows the freedom to use Windows, but also puts the freedom of choice back in their hands.

And let's face it: Windows running in virtualbox cannot get any slower than Windows running all by itself...

Or Wine. There is the added risk but to me it is minimal (storage drives are separate, only using familiar programs). Then again, I'm a Linux newbie.

Just to add I installed FerenOS on the youngest's machine as they were not keen on Windows 10 and had Windows 7 64-bit - there would always be a network issue on the Windows 7 hard drive - so I installed Windows 7 64-bit, allocated 4 Gb out of the Gb on board installed to a .vhd and it runs better inside VBox than it did on the actual hard drive originally installed on! There are some applications that will not run on Linux even when using WINE - WINE is only compatible with 32-bit applications (even though there is something called a 64-bit bridging package). I only use Windows 7 now for using Serif Web Plus for my website as at my time of life I can't be bothered (lazy! ) to faff with css and other scripts when I can drag'n'drop. So other things like Affinity Photo, Designer and Publisher will not run either. Knowing what apps the user can't do without would help in the first place!

Hello everyone, thank you for your replies and I apologize for the delay I've been a bit too busy this week but I'll give it a try in the next couple of days and see how things go.

Hello everyone,

So it's been a while but finally managed create a copy of my PC using Rescuezilla. I did run into a few issues creating the backup but nothing too time consuming (developer is really fast with support) so it was a great recommendation.

Next I went ahead and purchased a license for ZorinOS 15 Ultimate to install it directly instead of the Core version (support here as been great as well), and tried to install it. I followed the standard steps and chose installation alongside Windows. Interestingly, it didn't prompt me to resize any partitions and even more interesting, it defaulted to /dev/sda5. I simply accepted these defaults and continued with the installation knowing that it would failed, however, it didn't!

I'm quite happy that it worked without an issue but a bit surprised that it went so well even though it had failed a few times already during the past few weeks... other than installing the Ultimate version I have not changed anything, and as I described at the beginning of the thread I did tried to use the installation alongside Windows before.

Any ideas as to why this happened? Maybe I can take some logs or something if you are curious and can help others... In any case, I'm quite happy with result, everything works great and my friend is liking it so far too. Thank you guys for all the help!

Great going - it's stories like this that make our day!

Will mark this thread as [RESOLVED].