solved: Can I restore system to different hardware?

Hi:
I had a power failure in my office and my Zorin 6 LTS box has never been the same. The power glitch shut off all the lights, the HVAC etc. It was out for about a minute, then came back on.
My Linux box, has 8gb ram, a 240 GB hard drive (of which around 40 are used for the system, data, and everything else, is an OptiPlex 740 Enhanced,width: 64 bits,SMBIOS version 2.4,DMI version 2.4, and an AMD Phenom(tm) 9600B Quad-Core Processor × 4.

After the crash I couldn't get the system to boot either from the hard drive or from the original installation CD. There was no bootup at all, so I couldn't even get to a recovery console or boot screen by holding down the shift key. I had backed up my data so I didn't lose any work but I would like to restore my working environment.

I returned the next day, and low and behold, the system booted up again. I worked for a couple of hours, went to lunch and when I came back it was a dead box. Then it booted up the next morning. It seems to be a hardware issue since when it booted it worked well. I went into Synaptic and ran the fix broken packages option. It worked.. I then ran the update manager, and it updated a couple of non essential packages like Gimp.

Finally, I have Clonzilla live and a full backup on an external hard drive (Thank you Wolfman and Swarfendor437). So I have all that I need to restore.

But, there is always a but, since my computer has hardware problems I'm thinking of replacing the hardware with another computer of similar ilk. It won't be too expensive, probably cheaper than taking it in for repairs unless there is software to isolate the problem.

When the system does boot the hardware seems fine. The cd/dvd drive works, the monitor works, I don't think Compiz works well anymore (it doesn't open when I click on the icon), but AWN seems to do ok. The mouse and keyboard are also fine, and USB thumb drives, a usb hard drive and my main system hard drive also work. That sort of leaves me thinking it is the motherboard or possibly the power supply. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

So, after all that build up here is my question:

Can I restore my system image, from Clonzilla, to different computer with different components but comparable specs, maybe even a generation newer?

Thanks for your attention to this.

all the best
Jojo

Hi, Sorry to hear of your bad experience, all I can say is 'try and see' - and post back your experience - I think there is a 'dd' command you can use - if you have a cloned backup you should be ok. I cannot really advise as not had this situation occur to me (only on Windows recently - thought the mobo had died when it was only the graphics card - but all the symptoms initially were pointing to mobo failure).

Thanks Swarfendor437. Thanks for the usual quick, and sympathetic, reply. It is helpful.
I know you can't restore a Windows build to different hardware but I'm not sure about Zorin. I know its not a licensing issue, but the system configuration includes all the hardware from my present system, so the drivers may throw up a conflict or two. Still, modern operating systems may just be able to adapt, install the correct drivers and keep going. I will keep you posted.

Before I do that I will look into your intriguing suggestion about the graphics card. That might be worth replacing. The systems seem right. I now doubt it has anything to do with the power supply since, even when there is no boot screen, all the indicator lights on the case are lit up. If it was RAM then the system wouldn't suddenly come to life every once in a while. Also, at one point the system sprung to life without booting. I had left it on and when I hit enter there was the display. All that leads me to believe that the major, if not only, problem is getting the desktop gui displayed on the monitor. For example, when the system is looking dead then the monitor is grey, not black, so perhaps there is some activity going on.

Do you think that, if the graphics card had a problem it would work intermittently? It may be the connector inside,since I already unplugged and replugged the DVI cable. These intermittent problems are crazy making since you can never be sure it will show up if I take it to a repair shop. How did you find out it was your graphics card?

In any event, thanks again. I'll keep you posted when I get some solid information.

Hi
My experience here is that the full install os. can not be transferred to an other hw even if it is "almost" the same spec. It is never the same. I tried to boot a desktop USB installed os. in my laptop and it did not even boot there. Then I tried to move the USB to an other port in my desktop, so it booted there but gave many error messages. So I changed it back to the same port where I installed it to get it working properly. It seems to be very carefully configured according to that hardware where it was installed to and it is hard to get working properly in any other hw. I suppose that there is less work to make a new os. installation that configures itself when installing than to try transfer it from an other computer. Essential is that you have backups of your all data to safely transfer it to a new hw.

Thanks Henriolavi, you saved me a lot of time. I think, based on what Swarfendor437 suggested, I'll look into changing the video card. My Zorin OS has a system check program as part of the Applications/system menu. I ran it for my media components and got the following error message:

result of video test:

Graphics/compiz_check : failed : X Error of failed request: BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation) Major opcode of failed request: 135 (GLX) Minor opcode of failed request: 19 (X_GLXQueryServerString) Serial number of failed request: 22 Current serial number in output stream: 22

I'm not sure whether that means my video card failed or compiz failed. I can pick up an inexpensive video card and replace it, so I know how to handle that. But if it is Compiz then that I need a little help on.
Do you or anyone else know what my error message means?
If compiz is bad can I fix it, or reinstall somehow? By that I mean do I simply delete and reinstall, or do I need to do it another way so that I have my system desktop stay running?

Thanks again everyone.

Jojo

Hi, basically, usual - process of elimination. I had not long since purchased 2 x 1 Gb sticks of DDR400 for the machine and first suspected faulty RAM as there was no rudimentary single bleep that normally sounds to confirm that the RAM was OK (It was a home-build with an MSI 3700 (neo-2) Mobo with processor pre-installed kit of a few years ago (2.2 Ghz 2 Gb RAM MAX)- about 4 years ago I think) so I put the old memory in, nothing. I should have paid more attention to what my better half had told me as she informed me she had just saved a document when the screen went blank. I thought it was the mobo at first as one at work did the same thing - boots up with all fans and cpu cooler fan whirring but no hard drive or memory activity. I swapped the graphics card out for its lowly sibling - the machine booted. I was very fortunate to find a replacement 8x AGP (as easy to find as rocking horse doo-doos! )
Replaced with EVGA nVidia 6200 8 x AGP - original was an Asus 6600 (nVidia FX5700 256 Mb 8x AGP).

Thanks Swarfendor. I'm glad you posted your experience since now I realize that I better check my existing graphics card and make sure any replacement, even if it is PCI Express, better be backward compatible. I'll check both my card and available replacements.

Also, I googled the error message and got some, only a few, postings about a binary video driver fglrx that doesn't load. Those errors occurred after a software upgrade, not a voltage crash/spike, so I am not leaning towards them, except that the crash may have corrupted my driver. I still am leaning to a video card and right now it is easier to find (I hope) a low cost card.

Appreciate all the help I am getting. I'll update as I find out more.
Thanks again.
Jojo

If you can boot into safe graphics mode/recovery mode, then try and uninstall fglrx - it creates more problems than it fixes!

Thanks. I will try that. Probably over the weekend. What I have done so far is to set my "time out" for the system to "never" and then I shut off the monitor while leaving the system running. That has worked for a day or so now.
Your suggestion raises other questions:

Key Question
1. How can I tell which drivers are installed and what video card I have on my machine?
The usual utilities don't seem to cover that level of detail.

Second question:
2. Do I need to boot into safe graphics/recovery mode. Some of the articles I found indicate I may not need to;

a. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1999119

b. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/VideoDriverDetection?action=show&redirect=X%2FTroubleshooting%2FFglrxInteferesWithRadeonDriver#Problem:_Need_to_purge_-fglrx

I can copy the page scripts and run them but first I should know what I have installed hardware and software wise. When I ran system settings and looked into video drivers it said I had no proprietary drivers installed. I'm not sure that is true since I remember installing Ubuntu extras when I setup my Zorin box. I then noticed that installed under System Tools -> administrative I have a program NVidia X server settings and under System Tools -> Preferences-> I have a program called AMD Catalyst control center. (two actually, one is administrative). Do you think it is worth learning about these and do you think they can do any good here?

Thanks again

Jojo

Swarfendor: I partially answered my question by opening AMD Catalyst Control Center. I opened both the ordinary and administrative control center applications. Both gave me the same error message.

There was a problem initializing Catalyst Control Center Linux edition. It could be caused by the following.
No AMD graphics driver is installed, or the AMD driver is not functioning properly.
Please install the AMD driver appropriate for you AMD hardware, or configure using aticonfig

I still need to find out what AMD hardware I have for video. Under the hardware lister I got the following:

Desktop Computer
product: OptiPlex 740 Enhanced ()
vendor: Winbond Electronics
serial: CSMBMJ1
width: 64 bits
capabilities:
SMBIOS version 2.4,
DMI version 2.4,
32-bit processes
configuration:
boot: normal
chassis: desktop
uuid: 44454C4C-5300-104D-8042-C3C04F4D4A31
Thanks again. I think once I can figure out what drivers I need I will install/uninstall what I need and pretty much leave it at that. My computer has been on for about a day and a half and the video is working. I have a boot up problem that occurs when I let the computer go into some state of suspended animation from which it never woke up and didn't reboot for a about a day, or when I shut down and tried to reboot. It sounds a bit like something is hanging up the machine, but the video is ok when the computer is on.

By the way, I tried another trick that seemed to help. When I was unable to boot up a couple of days ago I decided to connect another monitor via a USB to DVI adapter. The usb monitor opened ok and then the main backplane plane video connected monitor opened up and the computer booted. Perhaps the main monitor got jealous!

In any event, I am approaching a work around here, so I hope that once I solve the driver issue I can have a workable situation.
Thanks for all the help.

Jojo

One last comment.
I tried the suggestion from the Catalyst control center, configure using aticonfig. Below is the output

joel@joel-OptiPlex-740-Enhanced:~$ aticonfig
aticonfig: No supported adapters detected
joel@joel-OptiPlex-740-Enhanced:~$

Jojo

Hi Guys;
This is my last message for the day. I'm trying to minimize my burden on everyone here, so I'm doing as much as I can myself.
I discovered a wonderful utility on the Ubuntu Software Center called HardInfo. (O.5.1) It is free and it generates a report on your entire system and benchmarks the CPU. Great. Too bad it doesn't wash my car.

Here is what it found about my video under the PCI devices list given below:

-PCI Devices-
RAM memory : NVIDIA Corporation C51 Host Bridge (rev a2)
RAM memory : NVIDIA Corporation C51 Memory Controller 0 (rev a2)
RAM memory : NVIDIA Corporation C51 Memory Controller 1 (rev a2)
RAM memory : NVIDIA Corporation C51 Memory Controller 5 (rev a2)
RAM memory : NVIDIA Corporation C51 Memory Controller 4 (rev a2)
RAM memory : NVIDIA Corporation C51 Host Bridge (rev a2)
RAM memory : NVIDIA Corporation C51 Memory Controller 3 (rev a2)
RAM memory : NVIDIA Corporation C51 Memory Controller 2 (rev a2)
PCI bridge : NVIDIA Corporation C51 PCI Express Bridge (rev a1) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
PCI bridge : NVIDIA Corporation C51 PCI Express Bridge (rev a1) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
PCI bridge : NVIDIA Corporation C51 PCI Express Bridge (rev a1) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
RAM memory : NVIDIA Corporation MCP51 Host Bridge (rev a2)
ISA bridge : NVIDIA Corporation MCP51 LPC Bridge (rev a3)
SMBus : NVIDIA Corporation MCP51 SMBus (rev a3)
RAM memory : NVIDIA Corporation MCP51 Memory Controller 0 (rev a3)
USB controller : NVIDIA Corporation MCP51 USB Controller (rev a3) (prog-if 10 [OHCI])
USB controller : NVIDIA Corporation MCP51 USB Controller (rev a3) (prog-if 20 [EHCI])
IDE interface : NVIDIA Corporation MCP51 Serial ATA Controller (rev a1) (prog-if 85 [Master SecO PriO])
IDE interface : NVIDIA Corporation MCP51 Serial ATA Controller (rev a1) (prog-if 85 [Master SecO PriO])
PCI bridge : NVIDIA Corporation MCP51 PCI Bridge (rev a2) (prog-if 01 [Subtractive decode])
Audio device : NVIDIA Corporation MCP51 High Definition Audio (rev a2)
Host bridge : Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h Processor HyperTransport Configuration
Host bridge : Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h Processor Address Map
Host bridge : Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h Processor DRAM Controller
Host bridge : Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h Processor Miscellaneous Control
Host bridge : Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h Processor Link Control
Ethernet controller : Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5754 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express (rev 02)

VGA compatible controller : Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV610 [Radeon HD 2400 PRO/XT] (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])

Memory 256MB (Prefetchable)
Memory 64 KB (non-prefetchable
Kernel modules radeon
Vendor ATI technologies

So, it looks as if I have a video card, A Radeon HD 2400 Pro/XT or maybe an AMT/ATI RV 610 and associated drivers.

So I need to either reinstall or deleted and install the proper driver. It is around 9:00 PM here, so I am going to call it a day and feel good about my detective work. I have gained even more respect for the work of system administrators than I had before.
all the best
Jojo

Hi, the quickest way to find out what graphics you have:

Menu | System Tools | System Settings | Details

Thank you Swafendor437. I did find my video graphics, and I think I have gotten to the end game for my problem. It turns out that AMD/ATI stopped updating and withdrew support for the Radeon HD 2400. However, there is a PPA for the older drivers.
[url]file:///home/joel/Desktop/crash%20rept%20fix/video%20card%20problem/AMD%20Catalyst%20Legacy%20for%20older%2012.04%20drivers%20%20%20Tomasz%20Makarewicz.htm[/url]l

The bad news is that none of them work past Ubuntu 12.04.2 and I have 12.04.4. So what seems to have happened is that after the latest updates the AMD Catalyst legacy driver stopped working well and threw off the problems I observed.

So now I see three solutions.

1. Go with generic drivers, except I don't know how to do that. I gather that I have to uninstall the AMD driver and either install or use already installed generics. Any help here appreciated;
2. Find a compatible video card and replace my existing video card with the new one. I will google the AMD Catalyst replacement for Ubuntu 12.04 and see what comes up. Any suggestions appreciated;
3. Continue with my present solution of leaving the computer down and turning off the monitor at night. That has worked for three days now and seems to be ok. Worst case is that I have to wait half a day to reboot successfully.

I can survive with solution 3 and back up using Clonezilla.
Solution 1 or 2 would be best longer term, although I'm not sure 1 will work well. I don't need game level graphics, just you tube video quality.

In any event, after I hear from you again I think I will try one of the solutions, post it and then we can close this thread.
Thanks again. ]
Jojo

By the way Swarfendor437, I tried your suggestion, and under graphics I got the following message:

Driver

Experience Fallback.

Not much useful here, I think, but the HardInfo program seemed to do the trick.

all the best
Jojo

Hi Swarfendor437:
Good news and yechh news.
The good news. I found a program that uninstalls the old AMD video drives and installs the latest compatible drivers for Ubuntu 12.04.
It is a little gem called " Ubuntu-amd-catalyst-install_3.9_amd64.deb. , so you need a deb package installer to install it.
It is available on the Ubuntu Software Center. The download is 38Kb and installs to around 120Kb. It shows up under accessories.
I fired it up and then it took a couple of minutes with a 1/4 inch box with a ball going back and forth. Very hypnotic. Finally it prompted"do you want to remove old Catalyst drivers? recommended", so I did and it rehypnotized me for another few minutes. Then it prompted me " do you want to install the latest Catalyst 13.1 driver for Ubuntu 12.04? recommended. I had to do that since I just uninstalled the others. So I clicked yes and was rehypnotized again. It then asked, "do you want to reboot so changes can take effect? " Again no choice, so I did and the computer booted up as before.
Therefore , problem solved.

Now for the yecch news. It booted into the Unity interface. Not nearly as cool as the classical interface. (I also had a message from update manager, which installed the latest kernel 3.2.64 I think). In any event I'm learning the latest interface. I suppose it was inevitable. I also learned that not all change is good.

Thanks again for all the help and encouragement. I couldn't have solved this without you and Henriolavi.
I can summarize the whole thread as a potential sticky, but it won't be until mid to late summer. I've seen a number of theads on video problems leading to boot up problems, so more than one person could be interested. The cause of AMD dropping older drivers isn't obvious.

To my mind this thread is closed successfully.

Hi, I wonder when you installed that package it pulled Unity from the Ubuntu repos - can you check that 'update to newest version of Ubuntu' is still set to Never?

(in Update Manager):

Hi Swarfendor437.
Thanks for the suggestion. I did check and on software sources it still says what you have, namely that "Notify me of a new Ubuntu version" is set to never.

However, cue up the heavy horror movie music, when I opened the update manager it didnt' show me the screen you have but it did show three updates that I'm now concerned about:
1. Video driver for AMD graphics accelerators--Fglrk size 82.3MB ---installed version 2.8.970 and available version 2.13.101
2. Catalyst Control Center-- size 6.0 MB--- Installed version: 2:8.970-0ubuntu1 Available version: 2:13.101-0ubuntu0.0.1
3. Video driver for AMD graphics accelerators, Size 62kb, Installed version: 2:8.970-0ubuntu1--Available version: 2:13.101-0ubuntu0.0.1

I ran the handy dandy system profiler I described yesterday and got the following profiles:
Computer
Processor 4x AMD Phenom(tm) 9600B Quad-Core Processor
Memory 8177MB (1702MB used)
Operating System Ubuntu 12.04.4 LTS
User Name joel (Joel Dubow)
Date/Time Fri 06 Jun 2014 01:24:50 PM EDT
Display
Resolution 1920x1080 pixels
OpenGL Renderer ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT
X11 Vendor The X.Org Foundation
VGA compatible controller Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV610 [Radeon HD 2400 PRO/XT] (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])

So I think? hope, pray I still have the `12.04 LTS release installed since I wasn't planning on upgrading until the next lts in 2016. If that is true then I'm not sure what to do about the updates. I just finished a long haul, with a lot of help from my friends, to get my system to where it seems to be working.

The new drivers seem to be to a later version, but the ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT may not support the latest drivers, especially in 12.04. On the other hand, would the update manager ask me to update something that would break my system? This whole thread was started by a power outage but may have also been caused by an update.

Yikes, what do I do now? Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks again.

Well that's a tough call. First off I would make sure you have a backup of your working system - is it currently working as it should? Did you backup the system before attempting to install fglrx and Catalyst software?

Will post back in a moment - Firefox will not accept uploads on this forum!

OK, open Synaptic (Package Manager) and search for everything ATi - remove everything then search for the nouveau drivers and make sure these are installed:



Then finish with an update:

Code:

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install upgrade

Then cross everything and reboot! DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK!

Thanks for the quick reply and advice I hadn't thought of myself.

First off I will do a full backup of my system using Clonezilla. My system seems to be working alright now.

Then, to make sure I understand your advice, I tell you what I think you told me.

1. Open Synaptic and uninstall everything ATI.
2. Search for the nouveau drivers and install them. In your figure your search term was nouveau. Is nouveau enough, or is there another keyword needed, like nouveau ATI?
3. Then open a terminal and type in "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install upgrade". I recall that install upgrade doesn't install a later version of Ubuntu, but just the latest updates to my current distro. Please confirm that I have that right.
4. Then cross everything and reboot. I am guessing that you meant "Then close everything and reboot" but the point is still well taken- take a break and go to church and cross myself a dozen times. Good advice.
5. Reboot, pray and then get ready to reinstall the prior backup from Clonezilla.

A follow up question. If I boot into Clonezilla live and choose the option to restore the backup do you think it will restore what I have now so I can just keep using it?

Finally, if it were you would you install the suggested updates or just keep going until I run into problems?

If I knew the updates would work then installing them keeps my system up to date and with a coherent package set. Hopefully the update will restore the classic applications menu on the desktop and remove the activities list. But there is some risk and maybe a break from system administration will let me recover enough to be ready to take the plunge.

Thanks again. I look forward to your reply.
Jojo

I wouldn't install the updates - just look for nouveau and you should be fine.

As for ATi removal:



Uninstall the top 4 packages but leave the ones with 'jockey' on-board.

And NO! NOT

Code:

sudo apt-get upgrade

- this would change your Zorin install into Ubuntu!

the CORRECT command is:

Code:

sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

This does not upgrade your distro - it looks at what is missing in drivers/apps after the last kernel upgrade!

And yes it was 'cross everything' (as in 'Here's hoping!)

And just to reiterate DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK!

Lastly, make sure that when you do do a backup DON'T overwrite your original backup!

Thank you Swafendor437. Especially for catching the " sudo apt-get upgrade" error I made and the correction to "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade." Wow, would that have been a zoo.

OK, to reiterate.
1. backup everything using Clonezilla:
2. Do not install the video updates I was provided by the update manager:
3 I remove the four (xserver-xorg-video **) entries and then install what I find for the "nouveau" search. In terms of the order of operations, do I install "nouveau" and then remove ati ** or vice versa?
4. Do I install all the packages marked "nouveau" . In the figure you gave on the last page there were 7 packages that have nouveau in their name, and perhaps others that weren't visible. Do I install them all, just the three you had marked green, or some combination thereof.
5. Cross everything, make a big contribution, and go home and reboot.
6. have my backup USB drive and Clonezilla live distro at the ready.

Please advise if I got it right this time. Also, in view of the need to request divine intervention, would you consider this upgrade a good idea or something you would wait for until you have to?

Thanks again;
Jojo

OK,

A. Backup your current system using CloneZilla - make sure you don't overwrite your previous backup.

B.
1. remove the ATi packages as per screenshot in previous post - only the video packages - no processor/mobo stuff (AMD)

2. Install the three nouveau packages as per screenshot in earlier post

3.

Code:

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

4. Reboot the machine and hope it all goes well

Hi Swarfendor437.

That sounds like a good plan, I'll execute it when I return to work on Monday and let you know how it turns out.

Thanks again. It was a long haul considering where I started from, and I'm glad it converged. It is surprising how much trouble something like an obsolete and unupdatable driver in an updated kernel can cause.

all the best
Jojo

Hi All:
I think we can mark this issue closed. I found that, when I got back to the office, I had an update that included the fglrx and other video drivers. I thought that I would try the update as long as I had a backup. So I did. Low and behold, my original gnome desktop with drop down Applications menu reappeared and everything seemed to be working. The system sometimes takes a while until the logon screen appears after a reboot, but it does appear and I consider the system to be unbroken. What I do now is leave the system on and shut off the monitor and reboot when it asks me to. If it gives me any more problems then I'll definitely use Swarfendor437 simple 4 step process from his last post on this thread. I am loath to fix unbroken systems especially when there is some degree of risk involved. I haven't restored from a Linux backup. I have the directions but I've found that there is usually some learning curve.
So thanks for all the help. I now know the issues and how to mitigate these video driver problems when they arise.

all the best
Jojo