How to select good alrenatives to USBlive installation

To make a USBlive installation compared to HDD installation there are some differing things that should be considered to make the right selections. The first thing is to select a suitable os. distro for that. I have used Zorin 8 Ultimate, Zorin 8 and 8.1 Core, Zorin 8 Lite and LXLE to make a persistent USBlive installation to compare what are the issues that should be looked more carefully to have a good solution.

In these distros there are two categories Zorin 8/8,1 Core and Ultimate are the heavy os alternatives to be used when your computer has reasonable resources to run these os.es. Zorin 8 Lite and LXLE are distros dedicated to older and lower performance computers.

Further on when selecting a distro to be installed to USB essential thing is what software is ready installed. This is more important here than when making a HDD installation. The pre-installed software is in compressed form in the USB and so as a efficient way to have it. However the more software there is the longer it takes to boot up the system. Zorin 8 Ultimate is a good solution to have that all installed in less than 4Gb size in a USB Drive. If all that software is not needed so also the Core version is a good solution to make a USBlive installation in less than 2 Gb size booting in ca 2 minutes.

If these heavy os.es can not be used due to shortcomings in computers resources and performance. The selection is more complicated to get a good USBlive installation. The two alternatives I tried here were based on the same origin (Lubuntu ), there was however totally differing scope of use. Zorin 8 Lite is very reduced version of an os. having only the skeleton to install additional software according to needs. This distro is clearly aimed at to be used only in case it is installed to HDD. That amount of software that is needed to a good os., is not ready installed there. LXLE has lot more such software pre installed that makes it a working os. as such. Like Libre Office tools and GIMB, a professional Image editor and a huge selection of Games and also wider selection of software in Sound and Video and Internet sections. This means that LXLE is more ready to be used in a USBlive installations than Zorin 8 Lite. In the sizes of these distros there is not so big difference. Zorin 8 Lite ca. 900 Mb and LXLE ca. 1,2 Gb. In Zorin 8 Lite there was clearly more such "use once and throw away" applications like Look Changer, Web Browser Manager, Zorin Os Lite Extra Software, which are not needed.

My clear suggestion here is that use LXLT (or some other more complete os.) instead of Zorin 8 Lite whether you want to have it to be little more than a "Chromebook" in the USBlive form. (This does not mean that it is not a good solution for a dual boot with Windows xp or a clean installation to an older computer's hard drive).

Additional to select right sized and content of an os distro to make a USB installation, there should be a USB device that have a good speed specs. Reading speed is more essential than writing speed. Using a USB 2.0 specified devices the reading speed can vary from 20 to 30 Mb/s. If a USB 3.0 specified drive can be used in a USB 3.0 port, so the speed can be doubled corresponding the use of internal HDD. A good solution is to use a USB 3.0/2.0 specified drive to make the installation.

When making the persistent installation to USB there are at least two alternative softwares to do that. I have used UNetbootin and Universal USB Installer. The later UUI seems to be the rock solid alternative to make that every time without complications.

Hi Henriolavi,

and what are your findings?, what are your suggestions?.

Thank you for the reply. It was however litle too early, the issue was not ready typed yet. Now you could comment it better.

A little concerned still promoting dual booting with XP without reference to disabling the network card/wireless on that OS!

Yes, you have a point here, but we can't go back to paper letters, envelopes and stamps. Your suggestion is half way reality, the internal wifi does not work in Zorin 8 Lite. At least not in my laptop.

So, I believe that my suggestion is still valid to install the Lite to HDD and change the Web browser to FF or something else not to be totally "googleted" and install some valid applications software from software center to that "starter kit" that you now have.

However, we are in a transition phase to move to web based operating systems, do we want it or not. That is a challenge for all conventional type os. suppliers not only to Microsoft as described earlier in my vision to new operating systems.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6695

I would not be so surprised if Windows10 would already be a web based operating system having its own on line web software center. Google has here a powerful strategy. Who will survive can be seen only in few years.

No Google here (or 666gle! ) - they don't pay their taxes to us (UK) and they spy for the Government - check out Stallman on Corporates spying for governments and also this:

http://donttrack.us

All Google apps have gone off the machine I have control over and also their search engine - stick with duckduckgo!

Thanks for reply. I have here now Firefox and DuckDuckGo in my browser. It is in my USBDrive running LXLE that seems to be the best running os from USB until now. It boots up in 1 min. and runs without delays from a Kingston 8 Gb Data Traveler 100, specified to USB 2.0/3.0 use. I have to admit that the hardware is slightly over specified to this os. when having a ASUS AMD Athlon dual core 64 Bit, 2.1 GHZ with 2 Gb RAM and a separate NVIDIA graphigs card. But why not having some power to run it nicely. Even heavy document or picture editing applications like Libre Office and GIMB opens in 3 to 5 seconds including the opening of the included document also like a picture sized 2.2 M. The data is stored in an external 500 Gb Buffalo HDD having only USB 2.0 connection. Emty applications will open in 1 to 3 sec.

That's the beauty of lightweight DE - everything Flies! (Let's hope it will not lead to a crash! )

I try to drive carefully. Security before speed. If you want to see crashes take Zorin 8 Lite and there the Abi Word application and try to open some document including text and pictures, made with Open Office or Libre Office text editors. There you get something that you can put to Trash Can.

Final summary of the findings

What is the best os of these four reviewed to be used in a Portable USBlive installation. The winner is clearly LXLE and here is the list of those advantages that makes it better than the others.

- It is a complete os. having a good selection of software installed.
- it is not heavy os., so it can run in a reduced performance hardwares
- it is compatible with other os.es using Libre office or MS Office tools and GIMB
- There is not Combiz Config Manager installed that may cause some problems
to run in a low performing computers
- The panel is LXPanel that is stable compared to AWN
- It boots in 1 min.
- It runs fast from a USB 2.0 port
- There is a configurable hiding Launch Panel like in Unity desktop
- There is 100 ready installed wallpapers with Random Changer on the panel
- It occupies only ca. 1.2 Gb from USB Flash Drive
- And finally, it has shown to be most cabable to create the wireless net connection
from internal wifi or using USB adapter

Well for me Trisquel - it is Free Software in the 'purest' sense and also has no compiz and it installs with your native language - the only things that don't change are the English icons on the desktop!



In the screenshot above you can see I installed to virtual drive in Itialian!

I am not familiar with Trisquel so here some questions. Is it suitable for persistent USB installation. What are the pre installed softwares, is there MS Office compatible tools Like Libre Office installed. What is the size of os on USB. Is there other shortages in pre-installed software. How with GIMB. Is there some vector graphig tool. Only to compared to LXLE ?

I am Just downloading the Trisguel 32 bit GNOME 1.2 Gb version so I can look it soon?

Hi I am just uploading a brief tour of 5.5 (just because I prefer the wallpaper to the current one on 6! - and anyway, Trisquel is cool in that it rolls up to the next release! ) I will post back with the link once it is uploaded (takes about 45 minutes as I only have a free account on vimeo.com.

Here's the link:

https://vimeo.com/92129121

I have Trisquel 6.0.1 running from USB but there are some things that do not work. It does not detect any wireless net and in the windows there are not any minimize, maximise, close buttons. So I can not close the windows. Language selection works nicely but it does not remember the selection. It goes to that language selection window again when starting.

Now after rebooting the the buttons appeared to windows. So some progress. Gimb works ok but it is little older version 2.6 not 2.8 like in Zorin 8 and LXLE.

A short tour and all other seems to be ok. only wifi do not detect any net here. How to get that working?. It is a USB adapter connection. I can try if it works in my laptop.

Following teksts from laptop:

Wireless net (Broadcom BCM 4312 802.11 b/g LP-PHY) Device not ready

Wireless net (Ralink 80211 n WLAN) Device not ready

( In LXLE both alternatives worked "out of the box")

So no net connection any type until now. May be a Ethernet cable could help. LXLE still the best solution?

It seems to have very Windows xp or 7 style look and feel in the desktop layout, in the bottom panel and in the windows.

Sorry to hear that but think that is an issue with most distros running live and different chipsets - I have some dongles with Atheros chipsets that get picked up straight away! (I speak in general, not Trisquel specific!)

Just found this interesting page with other linked videos too!:

http://www.diy-review.com/s1JeRHowToJ64 ... buntu.html

I connected by Ethernet cable my laptop to net and it seems to work. I Tried to change some drivers there using terminal.
"Sudo apt-get purge bcmwl-kernel-sorce" and "Sudo apt-get install linux-firmware-nonfree". This worked with Zorin 8 but did not work here to get the internal wifi working. It said that could not find these pagages. So it seems to be more complicated to get any wireless here working.

The Trisquel looks to be a nice os. and has very well structured navigation, so it is very easy to use. Also the language selection is a nice easy to use feature. It starts little slower than LXLE i suppose, due to that. The shortcomings with wifi driver installations there makes it however unsuitable to be recommended to use in USBlive installations until there can be seen better working solutions. The Idea is that in an os. used from USBlive installation there should be all needed software and drivers ready installed. At least a WiFi USB adapter should work. So, until now there is not better solutions in these alternatives than LXLE. This does not mean that there might be os.es that fulfils better specifig needs and computers that work better using Trisquel. This has been tested however in a desktop and laptop using two different WiFI USB adapters and internal wifi and non of these started to work.

Look also these links to Trisquel forum:
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/help-my- ... sb-adapter
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/wireless-laptop

It looks like I have to buy same new hardware to get wifi working in Trisquel

Well, having read all of that thread it would appear that the kernel applied manually to Trisquel sorted the issue out - somewhat bemused about the mention of an anti-static wrist strap when the thread was about dongles!

So, What is your proposal, should we wait for next release or should I buy 10 new USB adapters to find the one that will connet, if any, Trisquel to net wirelessly. There may come additionally to software problem a financing problem.
I am coming more and more wired with my laptop. Not only net but also the power due to pattery is wearing out having so low capacity that it runs only 1 hour before needing recharging.
How about this Abrowser (a browser) is it some derivative from FF looking so same, but looks also beeing a Free Software Foundation "start page"?

I Just find out that You Tube videos do not start to show - It only seems to load but do not start. LXLE shows that same video on my dektop without problem at the same time. Both uses the same net.

HI, I suspect because it sticks to FSF guidelines, but you are correct, it is a FF derivative! I can't see any reason why you could not download FF from Mozilla (.deb package) and install to Trisquel.

There is now a severe problem to get internal WiFi working in my laptop due to that "Sudo apt-get install linux-firmware-nonfree" did not work, can not be installed. Can not find that pagage. It includes proprietary (not open source) drivers that is needed for Broadcom BCM 4312 802.11 b/g LP-PHY shipset to get it going. That pagage is available in Zorin but not in Trisquel. (uses different sources). I tried it to Zorin 8 Lite USBlive and it installed there and is now working. Trisquel is too pure open source os. not having that driver available. I do not know what can be done to get it installed. My knowledge is limited to solve this kind of problems.

I have not looked the USB adapter yet. But I am afraid that there might be same type problems. That Ralink 80211 n WLAN adapter should be Linux compatible and there is an installation CD so I can look whether there is something to solve the driver problem. In other os.es it works just plugging it in.

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I made a try to use Linux drivers from the installation CD, The CD did not autostart according to the manual and there were some problems to install the drivers with pagage manager. So no progress until now. I may now give up for a while and look with better time if there is some solution to get the net wirelessly connected.

Being this complicated I do not support the idea that this os. is recommended to be installed before there is working drivers for wireless networking. Also the installed Abrowser does not start to show the videos. There is some notworking issues that may lead to headaches more than Zorin 8 Lite or LXLE having more solved problems, if any. Zorin 8 Lite can be used if preferably installed to HDD with additional software and LXLE if a USBlive installation is used being a working os. as such.

I may change my opinion of Trisquel if there will be a good (tested) tutorial in Trisquel forum, how to install drivers to internal wifi using Broadcom chipsets and how to install drivers to wifi USB adapters and how to get Abrowser to show the videos. Now it seems to be more a mess there how problems should be solved.

There is one type of installation that may be used if you have a desktop that is using only Ethernet connection and the Abrowser is replaced with FF. If the good language support is essential then Trisquel is very nice, simple to use and working os.

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I have a new b43 folder downloaded on my dektop . I have to replace the old b43 folder in lib/ firmware. Problem is that the system does not allow me to do that. How to get permission? Or how to do that from terminal?

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I installed Fire Fox but it did not solve the video problem. Still only loading and loading but don't start. It is not browser related problem, there is now something else that cancels it to load and start.,

Hi, I think you are right on that one but I did get wireless working 'out-of-the-box' with a Netgear WG111 v3. The video issue is likely to be codec related - if you installed VLC or smplayer they both come loaded with all the codecs but you might have to download VLC from the VLC website rather than the version that comes with Trsquel.

Interesting post here:

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/wireless-not-working

and dedicated hardware here:

https://www.thinkpenguin.com/catalog/wi ... g-gnulinux

Yes, I found it out already earlier, that there is something very peculiar in the Trisquel. The reason that nothing does not work, related to wireless, is that they want to sell os. specific hardware to finance the project. (25% of the profit). This is something that I can not accept. This can be seen from a folder in lib/firmware in the b43 folder, there are only tree files even if in a free downloaded b43 folder, there is 54 files for Broadcom chipsets. The os. is also build so that you can not use any nonfree software. That is why you can not use (almost) any freely available hardware for wifi. Only standard Ethernet is supported and then os.specific hardware for wireless. This can, I suppose, be changed only having deep knowledge and understanding of the os.

So users preferably buy the needed hardware from "Thinkpenguin". If this is the "play" they keep going, I would preferably format my USB to fat 32 and load something else there, than buy some Trisquel specific hardware to get it working. That is also something that blocs the free availability and competition. This all can be seen also from the topics in their forum. I would put this os. to the list of "not recommended os." until there would be more openness also to use "free hardware".

I can understand that in an os.distro there may be shortages of needed drivers, but they have to be freely changed to comply with your existing or freely available hardware. There is big difference compared to Zorin 8 Lite that can use also the nonfree drivers if needed and to LXLE that runs (at least in my case) whatsoever hardware out of the box.

I can agree on that I am right here as you said.

Hi this is the misconception of Free Software - it is NOT the same as in 'Free Beer'. Trisquel is NOT the brain child of the 'penguin' hardware entity - he is just a member supporting the project by donating 25% of his profits to the project - if you need to understand what Free Software is really about then check this video out by R Stallman - I don't have extensive knowledge about wireless dongles but I just happened to own a WG111 v3 that works out of the box with mos GNU/Linux distributions - one distro I would not go near is GnewSense - unless you want to run it as a standalone!

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-sou ... point.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrcdhzr2qnk&gl=US

I don't want to go any philosophigal discussions here of what Open sorce or Free software means. The purpose is to look whether the os. does work or not. And if not, is it easy to fix to get it going. That is not the case with Trisquel having that restriction to cancell all non-free clasified software and having a connection to a os- specific hardware supplier/donator.

Sorry friend but that is the whole point of Free Software! Philosophy is important when you consider people in the west enjoying i-Bads and other Apple products when it inflicts human suffering on those who work long hours and attempt suicide, or lose their jobs because they live on site and get pregnant! or workers who end up with repetitive twitching because of the demand on the production line - we should all think carefully on what we buy and how it was created!

I agree that there are important things to make selections also from other than technical implementation poin of view. I am however afraid that we loose totally the original scope of this topic to select good os. alternatives to be istalled to USB Drives. We may have slightly differing ambitions here to solve the original question, what or which os.es are the best suitable for a USBlive installations.

The philosophical issues might be an other topic on the forum.

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So back to wifi. I have collected some information related to USB adapter and internal wifi instalations there. If the kernel drivers are the same as in Zorin os. so it shoud start the USB adapter automatically. Internal wifi may require some firmware installation manually like in Zorin. This means (I suppose) that there has been done some modifications to the kernel not to start my USB adapter.

Look this link:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7051

Then I tryed to use the CD having the USB adapter drivers. There is a driver for Linux in compressed form. I tryed to extract it and install it using package manager. It started but popped up a window saying, "You have not permission to extract that file to that folder". So it stacked to that.

I tried to install the firmware manually from terminal. Did not find the linux-firmware-nonfree folder.

I downloaded a b43 folder having the internal wifi files for Broadcom. There is in filesystem a lib/firmware folder including a b43 folder. I tried to replace the folder and tried to add files to that folder. No success. "You are not authorised to do that"- So it stacked there.
I made a new try using some installation command from terminal and succeeded to replace the b43 folder wit one working in that laptop. Did not work in Trisquel. There is some software "kill" not activating the internal wifi. That "kill" selection can not be seen due to the terminal does not recognise that command to list all software and hardware rfkill selections.

So what can be done all possible has been tried ??

Did you look these USB adapter spec.sites in detail. It tels clearly that those are Trisquel os. related specific devices.
https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/ ... pe-n150usb
https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/ ... sb-adapter

Combined to that information you send in the forum links. I am that sure I have to go to "Thinkpenguin" store to buy an USBadapter before I can get it working. How to install firmware to get internal wifi working there is not good ideas for that
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Problems not seeing You Tube videos:

I tried to change the Abowser to Firefox and installed the VLC videoplayer. It plays my videos from my video folder but not from You Tube. I also tried to install the os. to a USB 3.0 to operate faster but did not have any difference. So this os. seems to be really "free" software. -- It is googlefree, wirelessfree and YouTube free. I believe that it is olso "fixfree" and finally userfree.

Now I see when looking the "Thinkpenguin" that there is - for some reason - added compatibility information for USBadapters sins my last visit on those pages when I commented that these devices are Trisquel os specific devices. ???

Following is taken from their mission statement:
"Our products are freedom-compatible. Meaning they will work with just about any free software operating system."
That is ok., however does this on the other hand mean that Trisquel as a freedom compatible os. has been buid so that it does not work without using these Thinkpenguin freedom compatible hardware componets?


In Trisquel "lshw"listing I found following for Broadcom BCM 4312 802.11b/g LP-PHY:

*-network DISABLED
description: Wireless interface
physical id: 1
logical name: wlan1
serial: 00:1a:73:e5:23:80
capabilities: ethernet physical wireless
configuration: broadcast=yes driver=b43 driverversion=3.2.0-60-generic firmware=N/A link=no multicast=yes wireless=IEEE 802.11bg

The network should be enabled by firmware install but that can not be done! The terminal line does not install anything.

In Zorin 8 Lite the corresponding list looks like this:

*-network
description: Wireless interface
physical id: 2
logical name: wlan1
serial: 00:1a:73:e5:23:80
capabilities: ethernet physical wireless
configuration: broadcast=yes driver=b43 driverversion=3.11.0-19-generic firmware=666.2 ip=10.0.0.6 link=yes multicast=yes wireless=IEEE 802.11bg

The firmware 666.2 may not be "freedom compatible" so you are enabled in Zorin but DISABLED in Trisquel.

In LXLE the listing looks like this when using USB Ralink 802.11 n WLAN adapter in my dektop

*-network
description: Wireless interface
physical id: 1
bus info: usb@1:3
logical name: wlan0
serial: 34:21:09:14:a8:0a
capabilities: ethernet physical wireless
configuration: broadcast=yes driver=rt2800usb driverversion=3.2.0-58-generic firmware=0.29 ip=10.0.0.3 link=yes multicast=yes wireless=IEEE 802.11bgn

This text is taken from Trisquel forum:

"Unfortunately, there is nothing the CMOS/BIOS can do to resolve the issue with your wireless adapter's firmware. If only it were that easy! Trisquel uses the linux-libre kernel, which in principle only supports software and firmware whose code is open and not proprietary. Your wireless adapter uses firmware that the free software community cannot legally use or examine, without doing things like signing NDAs with the manufacturer or incorporating the firmware as it is, in its nonfree, closed state. In short, it would be against Trisquel's ethics to support nonfree software or firmware.

What you can do is replace your wireless card with one that is compatible. This is done either by opening up the case (do not, unless you know what you are doing) and replacing the card. Or, by plugging in a USB wifi adapter. ThinkPenguin sells such cards and USB adapters.

I had to do this with my laptop, but buying the mini-PCIe card was cheap enough, and I have some training in dealing with the innards of computers, so I did it myself... And once that was done, things have been running great! Just don't do it yourself unless you really (really!) know what you are doing, else you will break something. You can always get it done at the shop. Takes 10 minutes."

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So now I know very detailled the poblems that causes that my wifi and videos do not work. There is not possible to install a firmware to run my internal wifi hawing Broadcom 4312 chipset because there is not available a free software driver for that. The kernel also that should take care of USB adapler driver does not work with my Ralink 802.11 adapter due to requiring a nonfree driver to kernel. The noshow video is related to browser not having a flash player ad on. any nonfree flash player can not be installed. So I suppose this case is closed, having solutions but beeing however somehow unexpected and non conventional.