First Impressions New User

First Impressions New User

Postby brainshower » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:17 am

Finally got this installed after much frustration trying to get live USB working. I will post my impressions here
1) Most of the posts recommend not letting Zorin install automatically. This may be useful for Linux users but it took a LOT of research on my part to undersand anything in a Custom install.
2) I wish developers would use more common terms or at least be consistent. When trying to fix my 1st attempt, I couldn't delete a partiton because I was told I had to umount another . I didn't understand that and couldn't find an unmount option to select. Turns out I had to choose another option which I think was Shutoff. Who Knew? ON and OFF are pretty understandable which I'm sure is technically incorrect, but who ever said users were technicians
3) Some functions seem unreasonably puzzling. The Firefox included in the pkg is outdated. It tells me so and gives me the option to update which then downloads a file which I have no idea how to install. Ditto with Adobe Flash or whatever is it's current iteration.
4) The list of installed software gives no option to update.
5) Software updater tells me some software can't be installed so I should do a partial update. I would like to see what's updating but I could only see an unreadable list that did not seem to be programs. Also no explanation as to why some programs could not be updated
6) Synaptic Package Manager - too puzzling
7) When online using a cursor my session suddenly disappeared. Sometimes I could bring it back moving the cursor, othertimes not. I was able to find a Customize Look menu that mentioned multiple pages which I'm guessing might be a clue.
8) I like the speed so far, but I haven't loaded programs so it may be too soon to tell.
9) At one time I was quite adept at using terminal (or DOS or whatever) commands. Now I'd just as soon never see them. There seems to be a lot of dependency on terminal in Zorin,
Next I have to look at fixing drivers. I expect some issues

overall I like the look and feel but problem solving is a problem all by itself. Parts seriously need simplification
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Re: First Impressions New User

Postby Swarfendor437 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:58 pm

Hi, Thanks for your contribution to the forum - just for clarity, I am no Developer - all the Moderators on here are volunteers with many years experience of using different flavours of GNU/Linux.

1) With regards custom install I have covered this in my dual boot videos on veoh.com and vimeo.com (I use the same username and I have covered this in posts on here too) - these show dual-boot installs - but the same principles apply if it were the only OS to be installed.

2) I was aware of issues regarding unmounting stuff but not as you have experienced it (in mine it was an external drive that I had forgotten to disconnect. I am also wondering as to why you had a high partition count - are there system restore partitions etc? That is what came to mind on reflecting upon it. The first I knew of your ON OFF experience was your post - would love to see a screenshot. ;)

3) The reason why Firefox is outdated is that .iso's of small distributions cannot keep uploading updated softwares on a Long Term Release - this gets done with following Wolfman's Post Install Guide:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9785

With regards to Flash, Adobe stopped supporting GNU/Linux after something like version 11.2 a couple of years back - Zorin 9 32-bit does come with Flash installed and I somehow managed to get it updated on a previous install but I removed everything of Adobe off after the current install:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9795#p48982

and now use Gnash successfully to play Flash videos without any issue in either Firefox (for which you can get add-ons) but in particular my preferred browser Opera 12.16

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9795&start=10#p50815

4) You get notifications of updates (including the kernel - the core of the OS) automatically - but be sure you change your update settings to 'Main Server' - Menu | System Tools | Administration | Software Updater - you will need to provide login password to elevate you to 'root' (administrator) and after it has 'whizzed' click on 'Settings button' select first Tab on window that opens and change location of updates to 'Main Server' - again, please refer to Wolfman's excellent post install guide.

5) See 4) re 'Main Server' - it is likely to have come up with that due to updates since first release - just make sure that 'Check for updates to newest version of Ubuntu' is set to 'Never' - that will be on the first page of 'Software Updater' I pointed to in 4) above. Some programs cannot be updated if there has been a Kernel release and the updates to software will be reliant on the latest kernel release.

6) Yes, Synaptic Package Manager can be puzzling to the uninitiated - I think it is time for me to do a tutorial video! ;) :D

7) A little unclear on that point - could you elaborate more please? ;) :D

8) Yes Zorin is quick - but if speed is what you are after over greater flexibility then something like Zorin Lite or LXLE based on Lubuntu or distributions that use XFCE Desktop Environments (DE) may suit you better.

9) Yes well there have been many articles in mainstream magazines about whether Terminal/DOS or the GUI is better - ultimately, what drives the GUI (DOS/bash) is more efficient - if we had to be brutally honest, most of the flaws/hacks/security issues is down to users having a GUI (Graphical User Interface - irrespective of the OS). As for drivers you should find most already present - I personally prefer the Noveau drivers for Graphics card over nVidia or ATi (AMD) GNU/Linux drivers. If you have a Printer driver issue - you know where to post! ;) :D
https://vimeo.com/user15592214
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Re: First Impressions New User

Postby brainshower » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:19 am

Thanks so much for the comments on my review. In response to your comments:
1) I will view your video. It does raise another issue which is the forum. In attempting to find info on many common problems such as new installation dual boot we get returned a message saying there are too many occurrences of the search terms. It left me puzzled as to how to go about finding something like your video. I had to resort to going out to Google. It would be more useful to get them all and then be able to search the results.

2) gparted created the partitions. I was running Zorin from USB so I believe Zorin on the disk did not unmount (shutdown) the problem partition. While writing the forum I tried and failed to post a screenshot of my partitions. I was able to figure out screen shot. Copy and paste didn't work on the forum . Sorry about the confusion re On/Off. I was suggesting non developers would have more ease with those terms, or Start/Stop. I realize they may have different meanings, but to everyday users we just need to get an understandable choice. What would be real nice would be hover popup explanation

3) Will review Wolfman's Post Install Guide and give Gnash a try.

4) Will follow your advice

5) Is there any way to pick and choose updates of programs?

6) Good idea

7) I was in Firefox navigating the web. I would move my cursor to a different part of the page. The cursor settings are different from XP so I moved to fast or too far and I guess I went outside the borders of the screen at which time I was no longer looking at a Firefox webpage. There are other comments online of users having disappearing screens.

8) Yes I downloaded Lite

9) At one time I would have dived into terminal. Now I'm getting lazy. Haven't tried the printer yet, nor have I solved not having wifi in Zorin. I have to try suggestions I received in my other post now that I've got a clean install
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Re: First Impressions New User

Postby brainshower » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:10 am

Unfortunately bad things contine to happen
1) I tried to run terminal commands suggested by madvinegar to get wifi working, but again had problems and no wifi
2) Tried to go into Synaptics followimg Wolfman's advice but got an error message with no advice as to what I should do so I exited
3) Tried going into software updater to restrict what gets updated and was shocked to see it immediately start looking for updates. I really dislike stuff happening before I get a chance to see what my options might be and give me an choice to exit without any action.

[Edited by moderator due to misspelling of madvinegar - the greatest expert on networking issues in GNU/Linux I have ever come across! :D ]
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Re: First Impressions New User

Postby Swarfendor437 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:48 pm

brainshower wrote:Unfortunately bad things contine to happen
1) I tried to run terminal commands suggested by Badvinegar to get wifi working, but again had problems and no wifi
2) Tried to go into Synaptics followimg Wolfman's advice but got an error message with no advice as to what I should do so I exited
3) Tried going into software updater to restrict what gets updated and was shocked to see it immediately start looking for updates. I really dislike stuff happening before I get a chance to see what my options might be and give me an choice to exit without any action.


1. Hi, which commands were you using? I usually post terminal commands enclosed with [code:][/code] so you can copy and paste without typos.
2. What was the error message?
3. OK, I appreciate that - there should be somewhere that you get an update notification in the panel and when you click on it it will expand to show you what is about to be installed to give you the choice. Remember that for new users it is better to get the updates generally for security updates etc and for compatible software (updated) that will run with the new Kernels that get released from time to time - unlike M$ GNU/Linux does not install stuff that generally tracks you but be sure to download the unofficial manual which you may also find helpful:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9512#p46854

;) :D
https://vimeo.com/user15592214
https://trisquel.info/
https://www.opendesktop.org/member/257685/

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Re: First Impressions New User

Postby brainshower » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:21 pm

1) I copy & paste the commands. Here is the entry when attempting to get wifi working

ray@ZorinDV1000:~$ sudo apt-get remove --purge bcmwl-kernel-source
[sudo] password for ray:
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Package 'bcmwl-kernel-source' is not installed, so not removed
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
cifs-utils localechooser-data
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 440 not upgraded.
ray@ZorinDV1000:~$ sudo mkdir /lib/firmware/b43
ray@ZorinDV1000:~$ sudo cp b43/* /lib/firmware/b43
cp: cannot stat ‘b43/*’: No such file or directory
ray@ZorinDV1000:~$ sudo modprobe -r b43
ray@ZorinDV1000:~$ sudo modprobe b43
ray@ZorinDV1000:~$

2) This is the Synaptic error:
W: Duplicate sources.list entry http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty-security/main i386 Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/security.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_trusty-security_main_binary-i386_Packages)
W: Duplicate sources.list entry http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty-security/universe i386 Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/security.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_trusty-security_universe_binary-i386_Packages)
W: Duplicate sources.list entry http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty-security/multiverse i386 Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/security.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_trusty-security_multiverse_binary-i386_Packages)
W: Duplicate sources.list entry http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty-security/restricted i386 Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/security.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_trusty-security_restricted_binary-i386_Packages)
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Re: First Impressions New User

Postby Swarfendor437 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:09 am

OK, please post your wifi issue back in help and support and madvinegar will sort it out - you stated you did a fresh install - that is why there was nothing to remove regarding the Broadcom driver! ;) :D

Will update this post when in Zorin regarding synaptic. It is easy to sort out. ;) :D
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Re: First Impressions New User

Postby Swarfendor437 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:28 am

OK, getting rid of duplicate sources. Startup Synaptic Package Manager and go to 'Preferences | Repositories' on the Menu Bar:

37.jpg


Next you will see this window:

17.jpg


Now select the second tab 'other software':

43.jpg


Now as you come down the list, uncheck the (source code) option after the first instance of 'Recommended updates'. I would remove any subsequent duplicates after unchecking them 0 and the same for Important Security updates and so on - this should resolve your duplicate sources issue. ;) :D
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Re: First Impressions New User

Postby brainshower » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:53 pm

Thanks for the advice on Synaptics. Please confirm some points so I get this right:

1) Your first screen shows a dash beside "Source Code". I have no such option, just blank and check mark.
2) What is the function of the line Recommended updates with the next line Recommended updates (source code).
3) My understanding is that I am to check the first occurance of the above two lines and then uncheck all subsequent same occurances.
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Re: First Impressions New User

Postby Swarfendor437 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:13 am

1. Well I did mess with this install - that could be it but I have removed duplicate recommended source codes - I have been preparing some screenshots for Synaptic Package Manager guide and discovered/forgot I had those duplicates so have taken screenshots of Software Updater which will be the preamble to the Synaptic guide.
2. Recommended Updates will be a bit like Updates in Windows I guess - always best to have these as there will be a valid reason but you don't need 3 lots! I am guessing that some get repeated when the new kernels get installed, but that is speculation on my part.
3. I actually deleted the replicants but left 'source code' on the first one intact but unchecked.

Hope this is clear enough! ;) :D
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