Why a new Linux user is totally lost

Why a new Linux user is totally lost

Postby Henriolavi » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:50 pm

I tried few Linux distros to get more information of other than Zorin 8 Core/Ultimate os.es. I used Zorin 6.4 Core, LXLE os and now today the new Zorin 8 Lite. So what is the problem. The problem is that even if the origin of these all are the same, there is a total mess of used terminology and placing of diffrent things in the operating systems. I only can imagine that amount of frustration when someone is coming from Windows to Linux and try to find out how the system should work and how to find different things there.

One examble here, I tried to find a keyboard language setting in LXLE and Zorin 8 Lite to get all needed caracters to keyboard. In Zorin 8 Core/Ultimate it is easy to open the language selection from panel. In LXLE and Zorin 8 Lite it is not there and it is not called "Keyboard language setting" it is called "Keyboard input method", oh dear! What a method? For me the method is to hit the keyboard with my fingers!

An other examble is that when going to "System Tools" there open either "System Settings" or "Control Center" and further on either "Input Devices" or "Mouse and Keyboard" or something else or there opens nothing to make anything. The, what you are looking is totally somewhere else in the system. Also there may be some window telling that go to somewhere what does not even exist in the menus to make some setting changes. Even if you are not a novice it takes hours even days to find all essential from a new os, that have not even clear documentation to navigate trough the system.

There has been a mess in the Windows with its Control panel to find different things, due to they have moved in every new os. launch the headings and places there. Now we have that problem also in Linux even worse. There should be some level standard what terms are used at least in all Zorin distros and what kind of menu structures there will be to find different things.

Still one thing I have used different Zorin distros and some other distros in my HP 530 Laptop. All other distros can use the internal WIFI there, but Zorin Distros don't. Again what is the difference in these from same origin os.ses that they don work accordingly. I can purge and install new drivers but it is an inconvenience of Zorin os that it does not make that better.
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Re: Why a new Linux user is totally lost

Postby Swarfendor437 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:05 pm

Well I can appreciate there is an issue with other languages other than English but that is partly down to the fact that the biggest market is the US. So even I as a Brit have to add the British English after installation! :D

I think all distros could learn from Trisquel as I am pretty sure that lets you choose stuff at the start but I need to recheck this.

In future releases I would like to see a similar GRUB install as Sabayon do where you can choose the default OS for dual-booters. :D
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Re: Why a new Linux user is totally lost

Postby Henriolavi » Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:38 pm

The problem is not in used languages. The local languages may be better solution than using English, if the translation has been made using best possible knowledge of the system and standardized local language terminology.has applied. Sometimes a poor translation however leads to even bigger problems to understand the "message". Sometimes I have to look the original English text from some manuals to get an idea, what the translated text want to say. That is why I also preferably use the original English os. versions. But there seems to be the same problem that there is so widely differing, non standardized terminology used of the same things, that it does not help that much the user, even if the original language is used.
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Re: Why a new Linux user is totally lost

Postby Wolfman » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:05 am

Hi all,

the language problem among others is down to Ubuntu pushing out their 6 monthly release cycle regardless of whether or not the bugs have been dealt with!, the keyboard langauge locales and normal language settings have been corrupted for a long time but no one at Ubuntu seems interested in fixing them!.

Another problem with Ubuntu is that their How-To's are mostly written for people who have a good or advanced knowledge of their system, they need to write the How-To's in a much simpler form so everyone can get their heads around what is (should be) normally an easy fix!. Not everyone is a computer (Linux) geek!.

Just my tuppence worth!. :D
Regards Wolfman :D

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Re: Why a new Linux user is totally lost

Postby Henriolavi » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:38 am

You may look this video. Linus says here that people do not want to install os.es to their computers. Any change to that? Not seeing any progress there !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o

Anything has not changed since I downloaded the first Ubuntu distro since 5 ..6 years ago. The size of os.es has grown from a CD size to DVD size but the process is the same. Even if the process is not complicated to an "old" Linux user that is still something that an average PC user do not want to go to.. And it is not only the basic installation, there is a post install process that might be even more a headache to a beginner to get the system working. These are the reasons why Linus relays more to Chromebooks than any other type laptop or desktop implementation of Linux operating systems.

What can be done? A buggy distro every 6 months and few volunteer helpers is not enough to get better results here. There should be time to test the software released and a secure process on place to make the installation. Also pre-installed computers should be available places where computers are for sale.
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Re: Why a new Linux user is totally lost

Postby RacerBG » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:06 am

Henriolavi wrote:The problem is not in used languages. The local languages may be better solution than using English, if the translation has been made using best possible knowledge of the system and standardized local language terminology.has applied. Sometimes a poor translation however leads to even bigger problems to understand the "message". Sometimes I have to look the original English text from some manuals to get an idea, what the translated text want to say. That is why I also preferably use the original English os. versions. But there seems to be the same problem that there is so widely differing, non standardized terminology used of the same things, that it does not help that much the user, even if the original language is used.


I'm too used to use English. The translations are not always good and...the global language used in the world is English so... ;)
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Re: Why a new Linux user is totally lost

Postby Wolfman » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:17 am

Hi chaps,

I agree that more must be done (are you listening Ubuntu) to make things easy, there are waaaaaayyyyy too many guides on the Ubuntu help pages which are more designed for rocket scientists than a normal PC user!.

Things could be a lot easier if the devs use their common sense as well sometimes instead of using their technical knowledge all the time!.
Regards Wolfman :D

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Preparation and planning prevent poor performance! :)

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Re: Why a new Linux user is totally lost

Postby Henriolavi » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:04 am

Yes, more should be done but also less should be done. There is not a Linux 8 os like there is Windows 8. There is million different Linux distros. Did you see the Linus' video telling what is the problem with desktops? There might be a fundamental problem with open source software! I installed also Windows 7 here some weeks ago and find out that everything went ok. Only answered to some questions there and after 30 min. all was done and it started to work without any complications. There is only few alternatives to select from 32/64 Bit, Basic , Premium or Ultimate. That's it, take or leave.

When talking about Linux the question still is "Does it work" ?

When talking about Windows the question is "Doesn't it work" ?
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Re: Why a new Linux user is totally lost

Postby Swarfendor437 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:51 pm

Well clearly I have done something wrong! :D I had one PC left running XP and due to my employ got Windows 7 Ultimate (32-bit due to licensing restrictions of XP) for £10. It took me nearly two days to get it installed correctly (never had issues like this with the Pro version of Windows 7). Zorin would have been up and running in an hour - so fundamentally, people want kit with the software on (if they are prepared [stupid enough? :mrgreen: ] to pay a premium) rather than learn something - It is relatively straight forward specially when people like me and others do tutorial vids on installs! :D

I think the issue will be around 'specialist' softwares that will only run on Windows and not GNU/Linux, but for the average Joe, GNU/Linux can fill that gap nicely. There is a need for home-grown GNU/Linux, precisely because of language issues - take the Japanese Berry Linux for example! :D

And on a quiz show here (QI) by 2050 the predominant language will be a merger of English and the most commonly spoken language in the world, Chinese (remember what their population is!)
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Re: Why a new Linux user is totally lost

Postby Henriolavi » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:36 pm

Sorry I can not help, :ugeek: not knowing so much of computers. I believe however that either that it was a 32 bit os. or that the price was too low ;) , you had to work two additional days to install. There is not a free Windows 7 these days for XP users you know :lol: !! My Windows 7 Ultimate is a 64 bit and it works fine and suspends nicely after 10 mins. It does not crash like Zorin 8 does.

You can also look this how it installs :mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZivYMA2qRA

And here some entertainment of using different languages
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybcvlxivscw
Last edited by Henriolavi on Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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