Android based ui concept for a new generation

Android based ui concept for a new generation

Postby nMaib0 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:21 pm

it would be nice if Zorin had a layout similar to this concept for android/smartphone users and people who don't like most types of desktops used today, I personally think bars, top bars, full screen launchers among others are pretty bloated and invasive, I like using my programs in full screen and focus on them while switching via ALT+TAB

https://streamable.com/ljfod

Version 2:

https://streamable.com/r5xub
Last edited by nMaib0 on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
nMaib0
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:09 pm

Re: Android based ui concept for a new generation

Postby Aravisian » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:28 am

Progress has to march on, I suppose.

I am your polar opposite. In fact, when Windows switched to having "charms..." and in order to find and open apps you had to "hover the stupid mouse in some hidden unknown mystery corner of the screen," was the major turning point in my hatred toward Windows. I stuck to Windows XP until my hard drive finally bit the dust. When it did, I moved over to linux to get away from that errant fallacy.

Having clearly defined functions that are placed in an organized manner that don't hide, float around, have to be hovered over to make it pop up and appear in order to actually be available and useful is far more important to people like me.
Desktops are desktops and mobile is mobile. Mobile is the way it is not because it is functionally superior, but because it was the only reasonable way to make it work lacking a proper keyboard, mouse and full sized screen. Android is loosely Unix based but heavily more ARM and java, so far removed at this point that it is easier to emulate Android on an MS machine than it is on a Linux machine.
Do not worry, if you like charms and apps that hide from you along with a cluttered desktop with many vibrant colors that make you feel like you are trippin on LSD, Microsoft is geared Full Steam Ahead to "got ya covered." Only be warned, unlike Linux Panels and toolbars which are in no way whatsoever invasive by any stnadard on the planet Earth, MS is invasive, using your computer as a server to supply updates to all their users for free, while they charge you a subscription for their services.

Alternatively, you can get a Chromebook and load it up with an Android operating system.

For those of us that like our Desktops to behave like sane logical desktops instead of clubbed together half-function android mobile devices or MS desperate hopes in marketability, we stick to the Big Boy Operating Systems.
User avatar
Aravisian
 
Posts: 500
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:51 am

Re: Android based ui concept for a new generation

Postby nMaib0 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:07 pm

I really really disagree with this way of looking at things. I think things should appear on your screen and be accessible in order of importance and usability. Why must I have icons on the screen that I rarely access? Specially taking up vertical space. I don't care why android works the way it is or why microsoft steals your information. Visually speaking having a horizontal bar at all times on the lower side of your screen is just invasibe and counter productive since most of your focus is on the top right. if you open a new program every 5 minutes there's no need to have an icon always on the screen telling you this is where you need to click, same reason menu bars havedisappeared from internet browsers, you just don't use them frequently so it's pointless to have them taking up space, in fact, many people myself included just use ALT when accessing the menu bar and don't even have booksmark bars instead icons that expand a list of bookmarks.

look at the windows desktop http://prntscr.com/ou62al or macos desktop which is worse and ell me you don't get bothered by all the wasted space, http://prntscr.com/ou61h1

Look at that c***, if it isn't on your thoughts it should not be on the screen, that is how a real desktop should flow, you think it, then you see it and your ability to get to it must depend on how frequent you think about it, everything else is a distraction.
User avatar
nMaib0
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:09 pm

Re: Android based ui concept for a new generation

Postby Aravisian » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:46 pm

nMaib0 wrote:I think things should appear on your screen and be accessible in order of importance and usability.

With your Linux O.S., you have a choice of setting things up that way if you like.
You also have a choice as to whether or not to have a taskbar or panel, at all. You may use keyboard shortcuts to pop open your menu.
What you stated above makes it sound like you want the O.S. to make that choice for us.
IF the O.S. is set up to hide and reveal icons by its choosing instead of your own, you are losing that control and that choice.
As it is currently, you and I can totally disagree and we both have the freedom to express that individuality without impacting the others freedom.
But if people who think as you do speak up enough, then I start losing that choice, I start losing that freedom and control while you get your way.
This is already happening with Android and Windows and sadly- it is starting to Happen With Gnome/Gnu. GTK3 has taken serious strides toward that - limiting User Control and freedom of expression.
Linux has always offered the platform of more user control and freedom- WHY is it trending now toward its removal?
Because a bunch of Microsoft users came over and said, "We want your product because it is free, but we demand you do it like Microsoft does so we don't have to Think or Be Responsible for our desktops. Just think for me, pander to me and give me your free product."
nMaib0 wrote: Why must I have icons on the screen that I rarely access?

You have a choice.
You do not have to have icons on the screen that you rarely access. I do not have icons on my screen that I rarely access.
nMaib0 wrote:Specially taking up vertical space.

The example you gave shows a window that pops open revealing icons in the Android Style. I see that it takes up quite a lot of space.
It takes up far more space than my panel does. My panel is set to 48px, even.
The example you showed implies that it autohides. I can set my panel to Auto-hide, as well- if I choose.
nMaib0 wrote: I don't care why android works the way it is or why microsoft steals your information. Visually speaking having a horizontal bar at all times on the lower side of your screen is just invasibe and counter productive since most of your focus is on the top right.

Again, you (and I) have a choice. You can move the panel where-ever you like, you can make it horizontal, vertical or set it to auto-hide, which I avoid at all times and you seem to prefer. As it is, we both have the choice, the control to make it as we wish.
The panel is not invasive. Invasive means that it access your personal information. You feel it is space consuming and that is fine- you have every right to have a different preference.
But you can reduce the size of the panel, you can instruct it to take any shape you wish, you can have it autohide...you can have your way and I can have mine. However, the project you link to would allow you your choice while disallowing mine.
To me, it is important to prevent that trend.
If you like, I can (happily) show you how to set your settings up to have your panels act as you wish.
nMaib0 wrote:if you open a new program every 5 minutes there's no need to have an icon always on the screen telling you this is where you need to click, same reason menu bars have disappeared from internet browsers, you just don't use them frequently so it's pointless to have them taking up space, in fact, many people myself included just use ALT when accessing the menu bar and don't even have booksmark bars instead icons that expand a list of bookmarks.

I use my menu bars frequently.
You have the choice to use alt- but if the menu bars disappear, I lose my choice to use things by my preference even as you keep yours.
nMaib0 wrote:look at the windows desktop http://prntscr.com/ou62al or macos desktop which is worse and ell me you don't get bothered by all the wasted space, http://prntscr.com/ou61h1

It does not bother me, at all. Space is "wasted" when it is not being productively used. Wide open empty spaces where your icons and access to your apps is hidden seems more wasteful to me. That empty space is not being used when it could be. Yes, I like wide open space for manipulating images in gimp- to be sure. But I have that space when I open Gimp.
If the taskbar or panel bothers you, you can set it to below or to Auto-hide.
nMaib0 wrote:Look at that c***, if it isn't on your thoughts it should not be on the screen, that is how a real desktop should flow, you think it, then you see it and your ability to get to it must depend on how frequent you think about it, everything else is a distraction.

If it isn't on my thoughts, I may need the reminder.
I often open my app menu trying to remember what I opened it for. You know when you are in a hurry and have fifteen things going on in your head at once... If that is the case, imagine what trouble it would be for me if I cannot even FIND the hidden corner where you have to hover the mouse to find the app menu first. THAT would be a distraction.
With a set panel, I can see what I need and what I use regularly, because I set that panel up, I set and chose what icons to put on it and it is Always There, Where I Need It When I Need it.
I don't have to hunt it down or wonder where it went. I do not need to stop what I am doing - be distracted - by trying to Find the Thing and Make it Appear. By the time I get it located and up on the screen, I was so distracted, I have to stop and think to remember what it was I wanted it for.
And the last thing I want is for my O.S. or my computer to try to think for me. It does not need to pander to reading my mind and providing what I want most. That is how Facebook works and I avoid Facebook like plague.
The idea of supplying only what you think about is fundamentally flawed- it limits you to your own habits and disallows you from exploring new things, examining things in a different way. News Feeds that present you with only what you commonly look at or read limit your world view and warp your perceptions.

In my long-winded fashion, I think I have established that we both have different ideals and we both have the freedom to control our dekstops and express those controls as we see fit- even if we are both wanting a bit more.
You found a project that seeks to offer more of what you want by design. That's fine. But it is unreasonable to request all other O.S.'s follow suit.
User avatar
Aravisian
 
Posts: 500
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:51 am

Re: Android based ui concept for a new generation

Postby Swarfendor437 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:49 pm

Then there is always Alt+ F2 and enter what you are looking for. If you want minimalist, then E-live 3.0.0.6 might be what you want - left-click the desktop anywhere for a traditional app menu, or right-click the desktop anywhere for tabbed/iconed window. ;) :D

Left-click:

E-live left-click.jpg


Right-click:

E-live right-click.jpg
https://vimeo.com/user15592214
https://trisquel.info/
https://www.opendesktop.org/member/257685/

Machine: ASUS X470-PRO, AMD Ryzen 7 1700X 8 Core, 16 Gb RAM, ZOTAC Geforce GT1030 (2 Gb)
User avatar
Swarfendor437
 
Posts: 10169
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:51 pm

Re: Android based ui concept for a new generation

Postby Aravisian » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:13 pm

Swarfendor437 wrote:Then there is always Alt+ F2 and enter what you are looking for. If you want minimalist, then E-live 3.0.0.6

Antix is also just as minimalist, right? That is a non-systemd O.S.
User avatar
Aravisian
 
Posts: 500
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:51 am

Re: Android based ui concept for a new generation

Postby Swarfendor437 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:43 pm

AntiX 17.x has a Win2k style menu with an LXDE style Panel in an xfce DE! ;)

I'd link to some nice pics but the site that hosted them from somebody else is no longer in use! :(

See the first desktop screenshot on this page:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/antix/a ... 38f885cdd4
https://vimeo.com/user15592214
https://trisquel.info/
https://www.opendesktop.org/member/257685/

Machine: ASUS X470-PRO, AMD Ryzen 7 1700X 8 Core, 16 Gb RAM, ZOTAC Geforce GT1030 (2 Gb)
User avatar
Swarfendor437
 
Posts: 10169
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:51 pm

Re: Android based ui concept for a new generation

Postby nMaib0 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:48 pm

Aravisian

Code: Select all
With your Linux O.S., you have a choice of setting things up that way if you like.


I actually don't that's why I am asking for another type of layout, there's like 5 or 6 layouts available already, and I am taking freedom from you?

Code: Select all
What you stated above makes it sound like you want the O.S. to make that choice for us.
IF the O.S. is set up to hide and reveal icons by its choosing instead of your own, you are losing that control and that choice.


Again, I am not losing any control, I am asking for a feature that is how I would like to use a desktop computer, not with taskbars or bloated docks.

Code: Select all
As it is currently, you and I can totally disagree and we both have the freedom to express that individuality without impacting the others freedom.
But if people who think as you do speak up enough, then I start losing that choice, I start losing that freedom and control while you get your way.


if people who think like me speak enough we would have another kind of desktop, not tyles, not docks not taskbars, but an invisible launcher that activates with a scroll, and somehow me wanting that stops you from having the others? I have simply voices my dislike for those types of desktops, not that I want to stop people from having them.

Code: Select all
This is already happening with Android and Windows and sadly- it is starting to Happen With Gnome/Gnu. GTK3 has taken serious strides toward that - limiting User Control and freedom of expression.


take it up with them then, I simply was proposing a different way of using your OS. You somehow took it personal

Code: Select all
Linux has always offered the platform of more user control and freedom- [b]WHY [/b]is it trending now toward its removal?

I don't know, I would argue it isn't, but I also would argue you don't want me to have my freedom even though it doesn't stop yours, so what are you arguing for anyways? just for the sake of opposing me since I don't represent any danger to you, you still vcan have your shitty bottom taskbar.


Code: Select all
Because a bunch of Microsoft users came over and said, "We want your product because it is free, but we demand you do it like Microsoft does so we don't have to Think or Be Responsible for our desktops. Just think for me, pander to me and give me your free product."


What the hell are you talking about?

Code: Select all
Why must I have icons on the screen that I rarely access?[/quote]

You have a choice.
You do not have to have icons on the screen that you rarely access. I do not have icons on my screen that I rarely access.


if you have a dock, you miss the tray icons, therefore you must have a tray, or a taskbar, or whatever that think on top in gnome 3 is.

Code: Select all
The example you gave shows a window that pops open revealing icons in the Android Style. I see that it takes up quite a lot of space.
It takes up far more space than my panel does. My panel is set to 48px, even.


yeah your panel and by panel I guess taskbar, autohides but it sucks, it goes from top to bottom or from left to right, meaning there's a lot of spae being covered. as you can see in the video everything gets pushes to the part of the screen that gets more use, the top left and the moment you want to stop using it you stop it.

Code: Select all
Again, you (and I) have a choice. You can move the panel where-ever you like, you can make it horizontal, vertical or set it to auto-hide, which I avoid at all times and you seem to prefer. As it is, we both have the choice, the control to make it as we wish.


And they still suck in my opinion, but you got your freedom of choice, and you antagonize me trying to get mine, heh.

Code: Select all
The panel is not invasive. Invasive means that it access your personal information. You feel it is space consuming and that is fine- you have every right to have a different preference.


invasive means occupying a territory you shouldn't be occupying, that's is exactly what the blank space left by taskbars and docks do, lke I showed on my pic.

Code: Select all
you can have your way and I can have mine. However, the project you link to would allow you your choice while disallowing mine.


I actually can't have like in my initial post, hence why I am making a suggestion for a new layout, and somehow you think because I don't like the traditional desktops I want to stop people from using them.

Code: Select all
To me, it is important to prevent that trend.


The trend of people having more choices?

Code: Select all
If you like, I can (happily) show you how to set your settings up to have your panels act as you wish.


I don't know what you mean, there is no layout now that allows e to have it that way.

Code: Select all
You have the choice to use alt- but if the menu bars disappear, I lose my choice to use things by my preference even as you keep yours.


where did you get this idea from?

Code: Select all
It does not bother me, at all. Space is "wasted" when it is not being productively used. Wide open empty spaces where your icons and access to your apps is hidden seems more wasteful to me. That empty space is not being used when it could be. Yes, I like wide open space for manipulating images in gimp- to be sure. But I have that space when I open Gimp.


By your own words if you have a space that isn't being used by a program or the taskbar itself then that space is not productive, then if you don't have 20 programs the taskbar is not productive, and full screenprograms can't use that space, hence, it is going to waste. wide open space that gets used by programs all the time in full screen and also serves as an auto hide launcher is far superior. and android has proven it with the drop down notifications menu.

Code: Select all
If the taskbar or panel bothers you, you can set it to below or to Auto-hide.


I already do hat, but they don't offer fast access to applications in a small reasonable way, you have to click it to open a damn srart menu invented in the 70s ora full screen bloated launcher.

Code: Select all
If it isn't on my thoughts, I may need the reminder.
I often open my app menu trying to remember what I opened it for. You know when you are in a hurry and have fifteen things going on in your head at once... If that is the case, imagine what trouble it would be for me if I cannot even FIND the hidden corner where you have to hover the mouse to find the app menu first. THAT would be a distraction.


I don't, I don't open 15 programs at once and I remember what I am doing. I still think you should do what you are thinking, not what the computer tells you, that argument is the same people use for advertising, "hey I don't know what to buy, let's watch the buying channel". I don't want useless information and options I haven't asked for being displayed, very simple.

Code: Select all
If that is the case, imagine what trouble it would be for me if I cannot even FIND the hidden corner where you have to hover the mouse to find the app menu first. THAT would be a distraction.


I don't know what this means, you can't find a corner on your monitor?
Code: Select all
With a set panel, I can see what I need and what I use regularly, because I set that panel up, I set and chose what icons to put on it and it is Always There, Where I Need It When I Need it.
I don't have to hunt it down or wonder where it went. I do not need to stop what I am doing - be distracted - by trying to Find the Thing and Make it Appear. By the time I get it located and up on the screen, I was so distracted, I have to stop and think to remember what it was I wanted it for.


I don't have this proble, I am very fast with the ALT TAB shortcut.

Code: Select all
The idea of supplying only what you think about is fundamentally flawed- it limits you to your own habits and disallows you from exploring new things, examining things in a different way. News Feeds that present you with only what you commonly look at or read limit your world view and warp your perceptions.


This is a fallacy, you are implying I might learn a thing or two by having more info, but what I am arguing for is hiding things you already know are there based on your need for them, like the hamburger menu does. I know the info is there, I just have no need for and when I don I am one click away from them.
Code: Select all
In my long-winded fashion, I think I have established that we both have different ideals and we both have the freedom to control our dekstops and express those controls as we see fit- even if we are both wanting a bit more.


I actually don't

Code: Select all
You found a project that seeks to offer more of what you want by design. That's fine. But it is unreasonable to request all other O.S.'s follow suit.


is it unreasonable to request another layout? come on, you are the one trying to stop me. I tell you, for many people the current dock/taskbar/tiles system is flawed, so what is wrong with offering another way?

Swarfendor437

No I just want a top left launcher that behaves like in my video https://streamable.com/r5xub


Edit: by the way I could argue that I want is more advanced than docks or taskbars. a panel that shows running programs, intalled programs, system icons and date is far more advanced than a taskbar or a dock since 1 shows you applications and the other doesn't show you installed applications but show you sytem icon. What I am asking is thw two worlds combined in a non intrusive way.
User avatar
nMaib0
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:09 pm

Re: Android based ui concept for a new generation

Postby Aravisian » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:08 am

1.)
nMaib0 wrote: I am asking for a feature that is how I would like to use a desktop computer, not with taskbars or bloated docks.

That is the thing you are not understanding: The feature you are asking for is what is Bloated.
It requires so much, in fact, that it leaves little room for other options. The developer must then make a choice: To offer those features or to offer the Standard Features.
But getting both into One O.S. does not work out well.
That being said, you can get very close to what you are describing, now. You do not have to have the large taskbar. Or panel that stretches across the screen.

I believe that you have not stopped to consider how non-trivial what you are asking for is. And I hope that in these three posts, I can help you understand the gravity of what it is that you are asking.
You are not alone in asking... MS Windows users vaguely kind of asked and MS Windows company was More Than Eager to rush in with the bloatware and offer it up as Shiny, New, Advanced and Amazing.
And... the people bought it. Hook, line and sinker.
It exists. But you also may notice that Windows 10 is heavy, bloated, requires high end computers to run, heavy resources and offers Little Customization. It also... Sucks. It bogs down, is very slow, crashes and has multitudes of problems.
One of the Richest, most powerful Corporations on the Planet cannot get it to work right and they cannot get it to work with the old NT Standard of User control, at all. The new "Think for you interface" operates in direct conflict with the NT standard, requiring extensive patching and links-between to get it to work with the NT standard and after doing so, the O.S. is too big to fit on any reasonable modern computer. So, the old NT Standard must be done away with.

And that is what you are asking for here. It may not be your INTENTION, but it would be the Result.
Below, I will try to explain how you can still have what you want. I am running into an interesting problem- When I upload the images, the forum software says "Entity too large." I Will try using a separate post to do it.
Last edited by Aravisian on Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Aravisian
 
Posts: 500
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:51 am

Re: Android based ui concept for a new generation

Postby Aravisian » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:10 am

2.)
So, above, I point out that you can have something kind of like what you want, no large cross-screen taskbar, etc. Let's see if I can help you see how that can happen, now.
nMaib0 wrote:yeah your panel and by panel I guess taskbar, autohides but it sucks, it goes from top to bottom or from left to right, meaning there's a lot of space being covered.

You can customize the size, shape and length of a panel, if you want to.
Allow me to show you:
Here is an open desktop screen- I have started a panel on it:
Image
You can see the New Panel in the creation in the upper middle of the screen. It's empty and small. IF I want, I can lock it down right where it is and operate it from there. OR, I can move it anywhere else that I like. As you can see, it does not stretch itself across the screen unless I tell it to do so. It doesn't Think For Me.
I must now create a THIRD post because the next image exceeds the post size limit.
Last edited by Aravisian on Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Aravisian
 
Posts: 500
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:51 am
Next

Return to Community Contributions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest