Upgrading from Zorin 12 Ultimate to version 15

Re: Upgrading from Zorin 12 Ultimate to version 15

Postby edmcqueen » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:58 pm

ukahg wrote:Hello,

I purchased Zorin v12 Ultimate a while ago and would like to upgrade to v15; I understand I cannot do an in-place upgrade so would have to install it from scratch, but I've not found a way to download Ultimate 15 using my current license - Is this possible or do I really need to buy Zorin again?

Cheers,
Alan


It seems like a pretty easy question that can be answered "Yes" or "No".

If you purchased 12 Ultimate, are you going to need to buy Ultimate 15? Yes/No.
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Re: Upgrading from Zorin 12 Ultimate to version 15

Postby Swarfendor437 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:18 pm

If you look at posts elsewhere, Team Zorin have offered discounts to long-time users - why don't you PM AZorin and request a similar outcome? ;) :D
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Re: Upgrading from Zorin 12 Ultimate to version 15

Postby AngryRevsFan » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:27 pm

As someone who bought Zorin 12 Ultimate myself I am fully in favor of having some kind of upgrade pricing available. Just a suggestion from someone who has been using Zorin for a few years now. :)

Edit: And I did take up the suggestion Swarfendor437 mentioned. Thanks for posting that.
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Re: Upgrading from Zorin 12 Ultimate to version 15

Postby gavers » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:21 pm

Previous PAYING customers shouldn't have to join a forum and beg for a discount. Zorin should proactively offer all customers who paid for 12 Ultimate a free (or significantly discounted, €5 max!) upgrade. The money Zorin could potentially make by milking previous customers (evidently, some even paid twice) for more money is far outweighed by negative things people have said and will say about Zorin's treatment of paying customers. I've commented on YouTube several videos featuring Zorin 15 saying how Zorin treats paying customers. I know I've convinced more than one person to stay away from Zorin. So not only did Zorin not get €39 from me, they lost potential new customers. My YouTube comments could have been different had Zorin decided to treat paying customers with respect. I could have been an advocate. I could have convinced people Zorin 15 Ultimate is worth paying for. I might have instead left comments praising Zorin's dedication to their paying customers. I might be using Zorin 15 now, talking about how much I like it. I might be recommending people spring for Ultimate. But no. I'm not using it. I tell people how I feel I wasted my money. I tell people don't use it. Don't buy it. When the next version comes out, Zorin will do to them what they did to people who paid for 12. I could have been an advocate, but I became a detractor because Zorin decided to try getting more money out of me instead of giving me value for the money I already paid.

Just a bit of advice for Zorin at this point... don't offer me a discounted upgrade, or even a free one. I'm a lost customer, and in fact giving me something now will lower my opinion further. And don't start offering buyers of 12 a discount on 15. The suckers who did pay for the upgrade will feel screwed, and you don't want to start refunding them. DO change your policy. Make it known that if you buy 15 Ultimate you'll get a free upgrade to the next Ultimate version. Use it as a selling point, that you'll stick by customers who stick by you. These days people expect free OS upgrades. When you buy Android you're guaranteed at least one major new release. iPhones get free OS upgrades for a long time. Windows and Mac OS both have free upgrades in perpetuity. No one expects to pay for each new OS release anymore. I paid €19 last year for Zorin 12. That's the first OS I've paid for in YEARS and only a year later Zorin is asking now twice as much to upgrade. That's unheard of.
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Re: Upgrading from Zorin 12 Ultimate to version 15

Postby Swarfendor437 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:51 pm

@gavers - the difference is that with the new Ultimate fee you also get Lite version Ultimate too - it is not just the Core Ultimate on offer. People who have been longstanding Ultimate users from 6 on have received substantial discounts. And whilst you might get long updates for the other OS's you described I prefer one that I have control over - you don't have control over Google analysing your daily use, where you go or what you do. I stopped using Shazam after I learned Apple bought it out and records your conversations unknown to you. I'm also in the process of leaving Google Android for pure Android by using 'E' by Gael Duval.
To use Aravisian's argument in posts elsewhere - if you bought a 2016 VW Jetta would you expect a free upgrade to a 2019 Jetta when the 2016 was still good until 2021? ;) :D
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Re: Upgrading from Zorin 12 Ultimate to version 15

Postby gavers » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:05 pm

Swarfendor437 wrote:<snip> the new Ultimate fee you also get Lite version Ultimate too - it is not just the Core Ultimate on offer.<snip> if you bought a 2016 VW Jetta would you expect a free upgrade to a 2019 Jetta when the 2016 was still good until 2021? ;) :D


Are you really this dense? "It costs twice as much because now you have to buy two versions at once." I don't want "lite". I'm not going to use "lite". It's like going to McDonalds and not being able to buy just a burger. They only sell meals. You want a burger? You're gonna buy those fries and a drink, too, whether or not you want them! And are you really comparing software to a car? Let's go with that... I don't expect a free Jetta, but I expect the dealer will take my 2016 as a trade-in. I give them my 2016 and I get a new 2019 for LESS money. But here the dealer not only won't let me trade-in my 2016, the 2019 costs twice as much as my 2016 did because I have to buy a moped with it. It's indefensible. And you have your head up your a*** if you think what you said is reasonable justification.
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Re: Upgrading from Zorin 12 Ultimate to version 15

Postby Swarfendor437 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:19 pm

And whilst Windows 10 was free their one-drive suddenly started charging for game data - and UK Councils are facing Millions of £ on Windows 10 migration with fees set to double in 2025 so Zorin 15 is somewhat cheaper than a Windows upgrade. Each to their own. Besides 12 is worth using until 2021 - if you are competent GNU/Linux user then choose a different distro - that is one thing with GNU/Linux - you do get a choice - not so with Windows or Apple or Google. :D
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Re: Upgrading from Zorin 12 Ultimate to version 15

Postby gavers » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:59 pm

Swarfendor437 wrote:And whilst Windows 10 was free their one-drive suddenly started charging for game data - and UK Councils are facing Millions of £ on Windows 10 migration with fees set to double in 2025 so Zorin 15 is somewhat cheaper than a Windows upgrade. Each to their own. Besides 12 is worth using until 2021 - if you are competent GNU/Linux user then choose a different distro - that is one thing with GNU/Linux - you do get a choice - not so with Windows or Apple or Google. :D


We get it -- you see nothing wrong with charging €39 for Zorin 15 Ultimate. But Microsoft charging for game data storage, and UK councils spending money on IT has f--k all to do with Zorin. I don't even know what you're trying to argue. McDonald's doesn't have onion rings because the UK has £2 coins and I did laundry on Thursday so let's all go to Subway.

I think Zorin should have proactively given buyers of Zorin OS 12 Ultimate a free or discounted upgrade to Zorin OS 15 Ultimate. You've given some excuses why it's ok for them to charge. But can you give a good reason why Zorin should NOT offer a free or discounted upgrade to Zorin OS 15 Ultimate (without the bundled "Lite" version) to people who recently purchased Zorin OS 12 Ultimate? (tell me why they have to charge, not why it's OK to charge)
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Re: Upgrading from Zorin 12 Ultimate to version 15

Postby Aravisian » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:39 pm

gavers wrote:
Swarfendor437 wrote:<snip> the new Ultimate fee you also get Lite version Ultimate too - it is not just the Core Ultimate on offer.<snip> if you bought a 2016 VW Jetta would you expect a free upgrade to a 2019 Jetta when the 2016 was still good until 2021? ;) :D


Are you really this dense? "It costs twice as much because now you have to buy two versions at once." I don't want "lite". I'm not going to use "lite". It's like going to McDonalds and not being able to buy just a burger. They only sell meals. You want a burger? You're gonna buy those fries and a drink, too, whether or not you want them!

What if McDonalds was offering the burgers, Fries and drinks FREE?
That's what Zorin does.
The Core version is 100% free.
Lite Version has always been free.
What you are Paying For with Ultimate is pretty much a Donation that you Choose To Give to keep the project going. And this is well known. There is no reason anyone ever felt like they had to buy Ultimate Version. It's very clear what Ultimate version is about.
Your analogy suggests that you can go to McDonalds, you get burger fries, drinks and everything Free, but if you want the Ultimate Burger Meal, you have to buy that. You COULD get them all free, but rather than assemble them yourself, you pay McD's to do it with Ultimate Meal Deal.
That's more like how Zorin works.

If you don't want to pay for the Ultimate Edition......... GET CORE EDITION.

And Zorin is Not Microsoft. Microsoft is a Billion Dollar corporation and Zorin is Two people.
Two People. What kind of miracles would you like?
So just because you think people feel entitled to get 'free stuff' does not mean that people really are entitled to Free Stuff. No, people are not entitled to sit around and gather up free stuff that other people sank 80 hours per week into.

Zorin 15 is not an Upgrade to Zorin 12. An upgrade is where you take an existing system and add new updated information to alter it.
If Zorin 15 was an upgrade to 12, it would not be called Zorin 15 and it would still be based on Xenial. It would be called Zorin 12.5. (And Zorin 12.1., 12.3, 12.4 upgrades were all Free.)
Zorin 15 is a New OS, not based on Xenial but on Bionic. You cannot upgrade Zorin 12 using 15. Zorin 15 is a Fresh New Installation.


gavers wrote:And are you really comparing software to a car? Let's go with that... I don't expect a free Jetta, but I expect the dealer will take my 2016 as a trade-in. I give them my 2016 and I get a new 2019 for LESS money. But here the dealer not only won't let me trade-in my 2016, the 2019 costs twice as much as my 2016 did because I have to buy a moped with it. It's indefensible. And you have your head up your a*** if you think what you said is reasonable justification.

The dealer can take trade ins only because they can sell the car you trade in.
Are you offering the Zorins your copy oif 12.4 that they can sell to cover those costs?

As you can see, it is totally defensible and it was a reasonable justification because you are not making any sense at all.
You clearly do not understand Economics. You also do not understand what the word "upgrade" means.

I do not work for Zorin and I am not paid by Zorin. I'm just some random member.
So I really do not give two c***s about how you feel about how I treat you. I do not owe you anything: not free stuff and certainly do not owe you any respect after you joined a forum to beg for free stuff that you do not deserve while you spew abuse because you didn't get what you demanded.
It didn't work for the two year old kicking and screaming on the floor, either.

Have a nice day. :)
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Re: Upgrading from Zorin 12 Ultimate to version 15

Postby Aravisian » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:06 pm

It seems, I am not even finished with you, yet...
gavers wrote: These days people expect free OS upgrades. When you buy Android you're guaranteed at least one major new release. iPhones get free OS upgrades for a long time. Windows and Mac OS both have free upgrades in perpetuity. No one expects to pay for each new OS release anymore. I paid €19 last year for Zorin 12. That's the first OS I've paid for in YEARS and only a year later Zorin is asking now twice as much to upgrade. That's unheard of.

You kind of have a point in that people have been conditioned to expect "free" by selling gimmicks. But if you decide to try you hand at going on dates some day, you will have to learn some self control about expectations.

No one buys Android directly.
They buy the device that Android is installed on. When you buy the device, the cost of the O.S. is included in that price. You do pay for it. At quite a hefty markup, too. So, when the seller of that device (Not Android) guarantees you a major release, they confidently do so because you already paid for it and they know it. They also know the numbers: that most people will buy a NEW phone before the next major release is out.
They break the phone or lose it or just want the Latest and Greatest. And they spend, spend, spend. People dump gobs of money into buying phones.
It's like a addiction, they gotta have it.

Games.
If you buy Duke Nukem one year, do you get to take the sequel for free? Or even discounted? Nope. It doesn't happen. You could buy all the games in a series, Final Fantasy 1 through 12 but you don't get 14 for free or discounted.
"Free" Games.
You download some free game app on your device for free, right? But what comes with it?
Advertising. Advertising. Advertising.
Lots of ads and offers to sell you Game Packs to make the game easier. Many make the game absurdly hard, then offer you over-priced "packs" to make it easier to win. Kinda like thugs offering Protection for your small business... They create the problem, then offer to sell you the solution.
And people download the "Free" games but they paid for it through target marketing. Money Changed Hands.
And the suckers fall for the "solution for sale," too. Any objective observer can clearly see where the money is changing hands.

With Zorin, you do not get Advertising. You do not get "packs." It's direct, straight forward and honest. You get the O.S. free, period. You get the Lite version free, Period. But if you would like to help out Team Zorin, you can buy Ultimate edition to help support Zorin. Period.
Where are the selling gimmicks? Where are the hidden fees in Zorin?

As far as Windows and Mac offering Free Upgrades "in perpetuity," this statement is false or misleading.
With Windows, you might get a "free" O.S. during limited promotional periods, but other than that, you pay for it when you buy the computer or you have to pay a Monthly Subscription Fee instead of buying the O.S. outright like in the old days. Microsoft does not offer Free O.S. in perpetuity and never has.
Mac O.S. operates on Mac Products that you BUY. You are paying for it, so saying it's free in perpetuity is misleading. You can install Zorin on almost any computer. You cannot install Mac O.S. on any computer. You will have to pay Apple for something to run it on and those costs are factored in.

All of the above costs money to develop, produce and distribute.
Can Your Employer demand a discount on paying you because they have invested so much money into you, already? Should you be offering your services at a discount over time? Does your time lose value with the more of it you give?
Funny, the economics of that seems to be the other way around. The longer you are employed, the more raises accrue.
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